Unpopular Doom Opinions

[Roofi]

RNG in Doom is not a big deal (except for speedruns). You still have the responsibility to dodge the projectiles.

 

Scypek's idead about RNG applied on items would add a ton of replay value. I want a mod like this !

[Average]

Doom Eternal isn't very fun.  To me, it feels linear and formulaic with too much 'lore' which isn't very compelling and it has cut-scenes!  The soundtrack lacks the spark of 2016 and there's a horrible autoaim and lag on controller movement even at 144Hz.  It feels like it believes it's own hype and just got too big for its boots. 

[Scypek2]

9 hours ago, Roofi said:

RNG in Doom is not a big deal (except for speedruns). You still have the responsibility to dodge the projectiles.

 

Scypek's idead about RNG applied on items would add a ton of replay value. I want a mod like this !

 

Okay, I have a better idea - the projectile damage is still random, but the damage is determined as soon as the projectile spawns, and the sprite size is scaled to fit the damage. Revenant rockets that deal 10 damage are half the normal size, but the ones that deal 80 damage are double-sized.

[Lucius Wooding]

9 hours ago, Scypek2 said:

Revenant rockets that deal 10 damage are half the normal size, but the ones that deal 80 damage are double-sized.

 

So now the worst projectiles are massive blimps and even harder to avoid? What about just making the homing rockets deal 5-40 and the non homing deal 45-80 or something? Or if using advanced source ports, just have the sprite include text reading the amount of damage it would deal. Nothing gets your attention like a fireball with a big fat "80" coming straight down your throat.

 

Personally I've always wanted rev missiles to be shootable to help nerf their homing and high damage. It'd make them a lot easier to deal with 1v1, but in scenarios you can't give your attention to them it wouldn't help you at all.

[Shepardus]

2 hours ago, Lucius Wooding said:

Personally I've always wanted rev missiles to be shootable to help nerf their homing and high damage. It'd make them a lot easier to deal with 1v1, but in scenarios you can't give your attention to them it wouldn't help you at all.

Sounds nice until you facerocket on a revenant missile. =P We have shootable projectiles already, they're called lost souls.

[Lucius Wooding]

Ugh, I just imagined if lost souls had homing properties instead of a charge attack. Nobody use that cursed idea, please. Though the implication of shootable homing objects potentially acting as a shield against other projectiles if you get them orbiting is interesting.

 

I guess you have a valid point about lost souls, but really they have always had too much health. Scythe X with its low HP ghosties was a pretty underrated change IMO.

 

If you want a controversial opinion in the theme of this thread, I think Eviternity's lost soul health tweak was the best change it made to the monster roster by far. More WADs should absolutely use it.

[Sixty-nine]

Cyberdemons shooting nukes instead of rockets would be a great idea!

[Scypek2]

Here's a simple vanilla doom patch that gives homing attacks to lost souls:

Patch File for DeHackEd v3.0
Doom version = 19
Patch format = 6
Frame 590
Next frame = 590

Save this as a .deh file, load it with your game and enjoy. As a bonus, it also makes lost souls less vulnerable when stunned and causes them to screech the entire time they're attacking. Truly, id software was a few changed digits away from creating the perfect enemy.

[Sonikkumania]

19 minutes ago, Sixty-nine said:

Cyberdemons shooting nukes instead of rockets would be a great idea!

With the same firing rate as Aracnotron's plasma gun.

[Scypek2]

Deadliest Dem(o(li)ti)on may or may not have that exact enemy.

 

[Sixty-nine]

26 minutes ago, Sixty-nine said:

Cyberdemons shooting nukes instead of rockets would be a great idea!

And the story is the most overrated part of the Doom 64 manual as there are the underrated HD model renders.

[heliumlamb]

any of them, apparently

[Roofi]

15 hours ago, Scypek2 said:

 

Okay, I have a better idea - the projectile damage is still random, but the damage is determined as soon as the projectile spawns, and the sprite size is scaled to fit the damage. Revenant rockets that deal 10 damage are half the normal size, but the ones that deal 80 damage are double-sized.

 

Honestly , I'm not fond of this idea. It ruins unpredictability. Also it can depends of which body part got hit. I know Doom doesn't have such advanced features but I like imagining the Doomguy losing -80 hp after getting hit in the head and losing -15 hp if the rocket reaches a leg. 

 

It's like real guns. The bullets deal variable damages depending the target while keeping the same size. 

 

Real life has ton of RNG too and I think the RNG helps making Doom feeling more realistic in some ways.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Roofi

[Matt Mello]

I think the Icon of Sin gets too much hate and I honestly think the main reason why Icon Of Sin maps get such a bad rep is all due to how badly it was implemented in Doom II. The Icon of Sin made a bad first impression but it can be done fairly well. Even the other IWAD's that have Icon of Sin ending maps do it fairly well. Plutonia probably did it the best as it also features a more typical boss fight with the Cyberdemon to get to the switch needed to take down The Gatekeeper.

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

4 hours ago, Scypek2 said:

Here's a simple vanilla doom patch that gives homing attacks to lost souls:

Patch File for DeHackEd v3.0
Doom version = 19
Patch format = 6
Frame 590
Next frame = 590

Save this as a .deh file, load it with your game and enjoy. As a bonus, it also makes lost souls less vulnerable when stunned and causes them to screech the entire time they're attacking. Truly, id software was a few changed digits away from creating the perfect enemy.

My GOD it turns a lost soul into a murder machine! You can't even outrun it as it charges you. With some tweaking, it could be actually a fun monster.

[Sixty-nine]

3 hours ago, Matt Mello said:

I think the Icon of Sin gets too much hate and I honestly think the main reason why Icon Of Sin maps get such a bad rep is all due to how badly it was implemented in Doom II. The Icon of Sin made a bad first impression but it can be done fairly well. Even the other IWAD's that have Icon of Sin ending maps do it fairly well. Plutonia probably did it the best as it also features a more typical boss fight with the Cyberdemon to get to the switch needed to take down The Gatekeeper.

Imagine the Icon of Sin shooting the spawn cubes at you instead of the spawn spots...

[DNSKILL5]

Spider Mastermind would be far more memorable if her chaingun fired rapid fire SSG blasts instead of bullets. 

[Shepardus]

36 minutes ago, DNSKILL5 said:

Spider Mastermind would be far more memorable if her chaingun fired rapid fire SSG blasts instead of bullets. 

The spider mastermind already fires three shots at a time, making her effectively a rapidfire shotgunner.

[DNSKILL5]

8 minutes ago, Shepardus said:

The spider mastermind already fires three shots at a time, making her effectively a rapidfire shotgunner.

Still clearly isn’t as powerful as it could’ve been. Had she been able to pepper you with 20 or so pellets per shot (like the SSG only full auto), I think she’d be far more threatening and wouldn’t have felt as less of a threat from the cyberdemon. With how wide and open E3M8 is, having that sort of firepower would’ve made her a much bigger threat at close range, and still able to do some good damage from afar. 3 shots just isn’t enough of a threat. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by DNSKILL5

[Lucius Wooding]

If you took an SSG blast at close range you'd certainly take a ton of damage (60-300), let alone a burst of them, you'd take thousands of damage in a few seconds. You can already get killed from megasphere health by a vanilla one in a matter of 6 seconds or so, and you'd presumably be increasing that by a factor of 6 times. Go stand in front of 20 chaingunners and tell me if that fury condensed into a single monster is a good idea.

 

Telefragging would be the only option, since her health is so tanky as is. It'd be worse on Nightmare and UV Fast. Try and cover open ground to get to her and BFG, take at least 5 or 6 shots at up to 300 damage each. Try and streetsweep around a corner with the BFG, well you couldn't deal enough with just the tracers to kill her and there wouldn't be time for a follow up shot because 2-3 salvos would be death from mega health. Any fight would be centered around invulns or else it'd be a Doomguy heavy breathing simulator. Her reaction time RNG would play an unfairly huge role in the outcome because if she starts targeting you right away there's not much you could do.

 

Not to mention nothing would be able to infight against her except an archvile, even a cyberdemon probably wouldn't last more than 10 seconds and they'd hardly do any damage. 

 

The spidermama is the way she is because removing her refire check, making her more aggressive, or increasing her damage would make her too much of a menace. Overall, rapid fire hitscan and extreme durability make her a chore to fight and a poor boss concept IMO. Between the Cyberdemon, Icon of Sin, and Spidermama, the Cyber is clearly the only salvageable one and by far the least janky.

[Shepardus]

1 hour ago, DNSKILL5 said:

Still clearly isn’t as powerful as it could’ve been. Had she been able to pepper you with 20 or so pellets per shot (like the SSG only full auto), I think she’d be far more threatening and wouldn’t have felt as less of a threat from the cyberdemon. With how wide and open E3M8 is, having that sort of firepower would’ve made her a much bigger threat at close range, and still able to do some good damage from afar. 3 shots just isn’t enough of a threat. 

I think the spiderdemon does enough damage, the issue with her is how often she ends up doing no damage at all, whether that's because she got stuck on an enemy or got BFG'd before doing anything.

[ebrl]

The solution to BFG rush being too strong against the spiderdemon isn't to give it even more damage, it's to let it punt us across the room with those huge mechanical legs.

[Noiser]

The Mastermind is not the problem imo, but the fact that E3M8 was made with pistol start in mind. Sandy confirmed he did not took continous play into account, so you are not supposed to have a BFG or a high number of rockets\cells on that fight. In order to make her a threat against the BFG she would need more than 3000 HP or be on a far away position to avoid getting hit by all the traces at once (DTWID did that).

Edited March 25, 2023 by Noiser

[ebrl]

I wasn't even thinking about E3M8, really, and here comes my actual unpopular opinion: at this point in Doom history I'd say most of the content in the IWADs shouldn't be treated as much more than something akin to a tech demo (and I think that's a positive thing for their appreciation in the present).

[Paragon_of_Laziness]

I like ammo scarcity/survival horror-ish gameplay.

 

Sandy Petersen did nothing wrong.

[bofu]

3 hours ago, ebrl said:

The solution to BFG rush being too strong against the spiderdemon isn't to give it even more damage, it's to let it punt us across the room with those huge mechanical legs.

 

This is a great idea, or even just increasing its aggression would do the trick. I played around with DEHACKED using MBF code pointers and added a random check at points throughout the Mastermind's walk cycle that check for line of sight on its target and then has a 10-20% chance or so of jumping right to the start of its firing sequence, as well as adding a 100% chance for it to jump to the start of its firing sequence if it can see its target and finishes its pain state. This solves two big problems with the monster: it's harder to bumrush since it'll be firing more often, and it can't be stunlocked so easily by melee monsters anymore. It has slightly more damage output this way, but with a map like E3M8, it makes it pretty hard to pull off the BFG one-shot without getting chewed up first while the player still has the ability to take cover from its attacks.

[CasualScrub]

As time goes on I'm more and more convinced that Doom 2016 is going to age much better than Eternal. Gameplay that feels closer to the original games, not having to worry about multiple resources to manage, a much simpler and better conveyed story, more consistent artstyle, etc.

[orangefire222]

DooM tastes good dredged in egg and flour, then deep-fried in oil until golden brown and crispy. Does anyone at all have that opinion? Can you eat intellectual property?

[taufan99]

7 minutes ago, orangefire222 said:

DooM tastes good dredged in egg and flour, then deep-fried in oil until golden brown and crispy. Does anyone at all have that opinion? Can you eat intellectual property?

I thought I was the only one who sometimes thinks incorporeal concepts such as words have tastes.

[Scypek2]

I don't think Doom is solid enough to eat. It's more like vapor rising from soup. It's tasty though, more than Wolfenstein which is overcooked on the outside and undercooked on the inside.

 

Edit: What a good time to start a new thread page.