The DWmegawad Club plays: Realm of Chaos 25th Anniversary Edition

[Celestin]

MAP08: Research Lab by Slava Pestov

 

It's an okay techbase, with a hint of Tricks and Traps (fitting, considering the map's slot) - this means a hub-based structure and gameplay focused on overcoming individual challenges. The high point, no doubt, is the yellow key fight, with a big fight against a teleporting mass of weaker demons. A secret plasma rifle can be found just before this and it makes this much easier than with an official rocket launcher.

 

Research Lab ends by teleporting you into a lift with a cyberdemon and a horde of hell knights (another MAP08 nod), but that's not all, as there's a mastermind at the top. It's mostly an excercise in infighting, but a fun one.

[LadyMistDragon]

Map 08: Research Lab

by Slava Pestov

 

This map is weird, I dunno how I can describe just why. The midi is certainly a nice change of pace and fitting to those who skulk around. At any rate, it's easy enough to just Super shotgun everything but then, we'll be practically out of ammo. Don't worry, it's not like health is scarce in this map. We find the Hell Knights in the next room to be a little awkward, and the Imp trap to be not exactly threatening, if not well-placed for the barrels here.

 

From here, it's a trip down to some sewers, where you miss us mutating after failing to kill the very first Arch-vile in an efficient manner and taking terrible damage from the Mancubus here. The basic result of this is allowing the elevator to go up one level where we arrive in a series of drainages we ascend by teleporting off the edges before arriving at the top in a nicely detailed arena we'll just say screams "big battle." We missed the plasma rifle the first time around, but it's not a huge deal since the rocket launcher will thin out things well enough and the chaingun can take care of the rest.

 

The next wing involves a sort of bridge-raising action that goes on for a while and has little to comment on, beyond that we nearly avoided becoming pinkie dinner entirely unexpectedly, with furious chaingunners not really helping in that regard.

 

But the final section......it was certainly good that we combed the final hallway with the berserk pack for secrets because very soon, we're in a large room with nobles and a Cyberdemon that's not too hard to handle but seems very much a fit into the slaughter vein. Although if one misses the hidden rockets, this'll be more tedious. More than halfway up, a Mastermind is revealed and later some Arachnotrons. We charged towards this latter group first since they are easily the most dangerous group here, than once again fared poorly against the Mastermind before taking her out and reaching the exit. Honestly, it might be the best map here.

 

 

 

[cannonball]

MAP08 - “Research Lab” by Slava Pestov

 

Before;
 

Quote

Nothing particularly awful here, some goofiness perhaps but nothing sadistic like Map04 :P
Hubspoke in the most primitive form. The gameplay is fairly decent on the whole. With some tricks and traps homages, the pestov platform and the weird rocket launcher section which is rather amusing.
The teleport section to unlock the exit isn't that bad. Though that moving lift did catch me out which resulted in a little confusion.

 

Now;

 

A bit of a mixed bag, I guess that fits with the structure and individual challenge element of this one. The blue key area is pretty forgettable and the red key borders on tedium. That said the yellow key fights are pretty solid, the nukage drop offering probably the biggest challenge, especially as I had to bait the archvile to attack the mancubus and use the mancubus to weaken the archvile. The fight for the key is good clean fun, not difficult but chewing through fodder like that is always going to make your day better. The final area will surprise the unaware, though despite the monster compositions this isn't too hard to beat.

Overall this has a rather quirky but chilled feeling to it, made more so by Cammy's midi, in the end I found this to be a pretty entertaining romp and probably one of the better maps so far.

[SiFi270]

Map06: rick taylor dons the terror mask and ventures inside to save his girlfriend haha get it

So this was the last map I finished before this thread was started and an updated version was released. When I first played the '96 version, I felt it was one of the better maps for the first few minutes, but then I got unbelievably frustrated trying to work out how to reach that outdoor area. It turned out to largely be my fault though, since the switch I wanted was "protected" by some health bonuses, and I'm very strict about when I collect those. If my health is below 95 or too close to 200, forget it. By the time I had the "right" amount of health to collect them, I'd forgotten about them entirely.

 

Okay I just double checked the original to see if I really remembered what had happened and it turns out the switch in question wasn't really relevant to the outdoor area but still it was something to do with somehow forgetting that room existed. So the first time I played the anniversary version, I thought "oh sweet it's clips in front of the switch this time, this is surely just one of those maps like what Jim Flynn might've made where once you know what it's asking of you it's fine" but then I found myself reliving my frustration anyway, because now a super obvious secret from the '96 version had been made not so obvious, and it also happened to hold the key to the outdoor area.

 

But yeah this time around I was much more "this is just one of those maps like what Jim Flynn might've made where once you know what it's asking of you it's fine". Once you know, you know, you know?

[Roofi]

Map 08 : "Research Lab"

 

Quote

 

 

The original Research Lab is not more than a low-cost recreation of "Tricks and Traps" concept with a duller layout and a lot less memorable and exciting  combats. However, I feel that Cammy's improvements are quite noticeable, not least in the music, which is both mysterious and energetic. Listening to it, I feel as if I'm playing a level of Donkey Kong Country 2. The style may have nothing to do with it, but the instrumental reminded me of that game. There's a much more adventurous and dangerous tone, which I really appreciate. Bigger fights are better choreographed and more explosive without being a lot more difficult. The progression makes also  more sense as the combat against the cyber concludes the level and isn't at the middle anymore.

 

Map 08 is my personal favourite map in the anniversary edition so far. I think Cammy managed to give this map its identity, mostly thanks to the brilliant custom music.

 

Grade : C+  (11/20) - old version

Grade : B+  (14,5/20) - new version

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[VoanHead]

MAP 08: RESEARCH LAB (Woof!, -complevel 2, -pistolstart, UV w/ saves)

omg Tricks and Traps reference!!!!!111!!

A rather meh map for me tbh. The only fights that stood out to me was the yellow key fight w/ the influx of rapidly teleporting in monsters, which takes me sorta back to the time I replayed Going Down this year, what w/ the fight being sorta chaotic but ultimately easy enough to be dealt w/ monster infighting. The other fight that I thought was pretty gud was the final one w/ cybercheeks and his merry band of not barons w/ the slowly rising red floor. What I did to handle this fight is that I didn't do jack shit and let them go worldstar on each other. And could you actually believe it when I say that the cyberdemon lost? He got taken out by the few remaining hell knights + the arachnotrons when I reached the top. The mastermind used here was also pretty meh, just shoot at em w/ plasma and then push against the wall of the platform that it's on when it fires. Overall, an ok map that gives you more than enough ammo to deal with the fights you'll face.

 

I also wanted to note that gyatt DAMN does the midi in this map really have that DKC feel to it. I wonder if the secret maps midis will take on some inspiration from the bonus room themes of the same games.

[Cilian]

Map08--------------------
Yeah best map so far. Very coherent and consistent as @Cutman 999 said, and while the midis are always awesome here this time it really matches the vibe of a corrupted techbase giving the map some actually nice atmosphere. Gameplay wise it's pretty good too, most of the fights have something for them. Some good ones are the ambush when the floor lowers and you are surrounded by enemies and there's a mancubus on a ledge, rooftop yellow key teleport ambush, the cyberdemon fight, and the general gameplay doesn't drag.
 

Spoiler

Blind saveless, died a good amount and lost count (around 10 attempts??)

Map09-----------------------------
Goofy map. In some places visuals are super basic and gameplay is mostly a lot of annoying hitscanners and monster closets that most of the time are solved by running back and super shotgunning the monsters from a corner. Then the wolfenstein room makes it hard to take this map to take seriously IMO.
 

Spoiler

Blind saveless, 3 attempts

 

[Celestin]

MAP09: Machine Gun Etiquette by Steve Duff

 

You know, with a name like this, I expected MAP09 to feature the chaingun and/or chaingunners more prominently. I mean, they are present here, but that's something that can be said about the majority of the maps so far. M.G.E. adopts a similiar gameplay style to the rest of Realm of Chaos so far - a linear set of corridors that sends mobs of basic monsters. There are attempts to change this, like the large outdoor area around the slime pit, but I think the best fights are at the end. First one is past the yellow door, where a ton of hitscanners appear in front of you, while the escape route gets blocked off by mancubi. Then comes the blue key trap, a mess of monster that includes Nazis. A bit surprising to see them used unironically.

 

It's an enjoyable map, though I'm starting to notice a certain consistency with combat design so far.

[apichatpong]

13 hours ago, Roofi said:

Map 08 : "Research Lab"

 

Grade : C+  (11/20) - old version

Grade : B+  (14,5/20) - new version

 

 

 

I agree with what you wrote and just wanted to add that you didn't play the latest version of the map and that, in my opinion, it worths a try. Of course, this is not a revolution, just a new sector, but really like the addition, filling an unconscious "something is missing"-feel of my first play...

[Roofi]

1 hour ago, apichatpong said:

 

I agree with what you wrote and just wanted to add that you didn't play the latest version of the map and that, in my opinion, it worths a try. Of course, this is not a revolution, just a new sector, but really like the addition, filling an unconscious "something is missing"-feel of my first play...

 

My videos were recorded during the RC1 playtest, so the maps may be slightly outdated. However, I consider that the essential has been done.

[Pechudin]

MAP09: MGE (UV, PS, Saves: Yes)
What a hog of a map. I gave up on trying to no-save the map because frankly I've got better things to do. The amount of hitscanners on far-away ledges is too damn much, the Chaingunner-Megasphere secret being the chief offender, Doom's autoaim not cooperating to hit their bald heads. The entire map has absolutely no subtlety, opening large point-blank closets of hitscanners and Revenants, the frigging 20-damage slime (WHY) in the mandatory lift area and the ridiculous Wolfenstein SS ambush at the end. What the hell.

But that also raises my opinion of it a bit? Like, it is loud and obnoxious and ugly (save for that kinda pretty marble room) but it's got (incoherent) charm. Still, conflicted on this one.

[plums]

So it turns out the "everything blue" recolour is a new invention by Cammy. It was too clean for a 90s project, but I assumed it was present in some form in the original RoC and it was just retouched. Not so! I salute your commitment to 90s-isms @Cammy. I'm also surprised there is no blue-invuln COLORMAP lump in that case! (Maybe there are just no invulnerabilities...)

 

MAP02

Cramped in a way that's not common in modern maps, but not unpleasant to play. You can't avoid some pickups but they're plentiful enough that it doesn't matter. Armour is everywhere, especially if you get the secret one. I enjoyed it for what it was.

 

MAP03

Really like the music for this one, even just on its own merits, much less compared to Countdown to Death.

It's a hot start with all the hitscanners, but survivable. I missed the Baron crusher until I had killed them, which is typical of me. The weird diagonal lift in the slime pit feels "quirky" but I guess it's era-appropriate, though I'm surprised that it appears to be a new addition.

 

MAP04

A few big-money secrets in this map make a significant difference to the difficulty on pistol start, fortunately I found them all. I guess the megasphere doesn't count as a secret anyhow. The area with Archviles is pretty nasty, especially since you might not be able to back out of fighting them depending on your path. The windows that open/close with switches are very 90s and gave me a smile, and the four-door hub above the nukage that it overlooks is nice. I liked this one overall; from the sounds of other people's reviews, it's gotten quite an overhaul, so I might have to go back and see how poorly the original faired.

 

MAP05

Very hot start but with the starting secret it's quite reliably doable. After that it seems to simmer down quite a bit. The multi-switch elevator is a classic, I guess that's the Pestov platform that @cannonball is talking about? Mastermind fight is kind of a time-killer but you can get a bit of infighting fun going at least.

 

[LadyMistDragon]

Map 09: Machine Gun Etiquette

by Steve Duff

 

This feels kind of like an earlier map with its incoherency and odd essential linearity. No matter, this is actually a really good map. Also one we've got to play aggressively due to the vast amount of close-quarters battles, though the farther encounters also demand attention of some sort.

 

Probably better if we found some secrets but were there any before the.....train car on the knoll? This section is certainly possible otherwise but in most ways, it's quite a bear to do blind. Seriously, there are traps seemingly everywhere and the far chaingunner ambush when we're circling around the outside is just a little bit too much. Good luck on hiding once we're on the upper level btw.

 

Otherwise, we've got a map that later on, takes full advantage of the rocket launcher's ability to wield mass destruction, though the vast amounts of rocket boxes suggest there's an earlier one hidden somewhere. These natural environments and ruins are cool in any case, so things don't clash as much as one might expect otherwise. Combat flow is a little bit weird though, but it's mostly fine. Although the Wolfenstein section was frankly unnecessary and kind of broke the immersion. The ending station was a decent enough challenge, although perhaps a comedown from what came before. Next to those, it was probably the narrow canyon where a Pain Elemental can be spotted at the far end as the hardest. Like take a look at the sneak Hell Knight on the right! Much Revenant punching can be done here. 

 

Honestly, there's basically about as many Revenants as chaingunners (not literally) but we can generally punch the shit out of them at least.

 

One more thing: it's quite interesting to me how long that we go before we find out first key. It emphasizes the drawn-out nature of the map, even though personally, that's really not such a bad thing, at least with such an aggressive midi such as this. "Into Sandy's City" fits better with maps that are less oppressive, imo, and Cammy's tune just drives you forward with all the bullshit just hanging somewhere in the background.

 

 

 

 

[VoanHead]

MAP 09: MACHINE GUN ETIQUTTE (Woof!, -complevel 2, -pistolstart, UV w/ saves)

omg TNT: Evilution reference!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!111

I’m joking, I actually really enjoyed this map despite it being really hitscanner heavy. What I really liked about this map is the variety of traps it has installed for the player as you explore throughout the map. Sure, there are a lot of hitscanners, but this is mitigated by there being a LOT of health, armor, ammo. Shit, this map even gives you two megaspheres, one of them found in a secret. The only part I ever felt was cheap was when you go in the hallway past the crater filled w/ damaging slime, two mancubi spawn in and flank you from behind. Fuck those two guys, I forgot to save at some point and had to retread a lot of ground to get there again. The SS mein leiben guys were a surprise to see outside their typical map 32 slot, but they all managed to kill each other in that same room when I gtfo for infighting. I will say however, I didn’t even have to use the rocket launcher all that much when I got it, and I pretty much used it only for the final room to the exit.

 

MAP 10: HOLLOW OBLIVION (Woof!, -complevel 2, -pistolstart, UV w/ saves)

This is one of the maps of all time. Very short. Very punchy. It’s ok I guess. Alright, I will admit the berserk blue key room w/ all the pinkies was decent, could probably scare the shit out of beginner players to DOOM. However, for more experienced players, if you know how pinkie behavior works, just moving around in and out to bait the stupid dumb demons into biting you while you punch is all you really need to handle that room. Once you whittled enough down and have more space, use the super shotgun to finish them off. Legit, I got bored and decided to make things more interesting by punching out the following pair of barons. I don’t know what else to say about this map.

[cannonball]

I am not really one for long esays, but I suspect this post might get close to one here.

@plums The Pestov platform is the use of a raised platform accessible by stairs in a larger room that houses a key switch for progression, the first instance in the original Realm of Chaos was in map05, mapper - Slava Pestov

 

A sort of meme before memes, a useless piece of trivia is that you can find a Pestov Platform in one of my works, this shows that it can rub off on anyone.

Spoiler

BFG secret in E1M7 of Return to Hadron

 

Anyway moving onto todays map

 

MAP09 - “Machine Gun Etiquette” by Steve Duff

 

Last time;

 

Quote

"I've got 61 rockets, but no rocket launcher :("

"I've found a secret, wait this was the actual way to go"

 

This isn't as good as splatterhouse, still the game play is engaging and monsters are fairly well placed. The texturing is all over the place at time though and a random wolfenstein area to boot. Whilst linear there were a few optional areas like the megasphere room which required braving a few traps to get there which was a nice touch.

Pretty good map, wish I had a rocket launcher though, still probably missed it in a secret, I didn't get a single one. I guess there was too much health a well given I was inclined to punch out half a dozen revenants just because I could :P

 

Today;

 

Okay digression time already, but it will be a discussion in the mind of everyone, in regards to this wad. How much do you change in each map when remastering it? How much is worth your time and is doing too much removing the "Soul" of the author's original work? Now this map is a real mess in terms of its visual identity, it i one of the most all over the place settings we have seen so far and it doesn't feel like much has changed. But given the cohesiveness of Map06, you would assume that large elements of this map were deliberately designed to be this way and giving a more cohesive lick of paint may ruin the original intentions of the map. In a way I think Cammy did the right thing in keeping so much the same or at least similar, even though the flaws in this map are much more apparent given the improvements in some of the other maps.

So in short the map feels very stilted and large portions of the map are not particularly fun, again there are some very annoying moments where chaingunners can plink away with no way to retaliate, and the new textures don't really add much apart from potentially making the visual variety even greater than it was. Oddly one of the more fun encounters was the Mein Leiben room, especially as one, I found the secret rocket launcher early and two you get one towards the blue key anyway. Its an oky map but I prefer the more comfy locale of Splatterhouse to this one.

PS - Pestov platform to end the map, thanks Cammy :)

[Cutman 999]

MAP09 - “Machine Gun Etiquette” by Steve Duff

 

Boring, a bit overlong and with the same bullcrap as bland shit as in maps 3 and 2. Again, weird fights over extremely tight corridors, again throw away filler with hitscan enemies that you can eliminate in like 5 seconds. This is the first RoC map which i find myself getting a bit lost, mostly because of that crusher's ass looking room with the massive lift. Inconsistent thematic, janky fights like the archvile over the massive cliff, is just the same shit you've seen in the earlier maps, just longer and more boring

 

3/10

 

Also, @Cammy is me or there are touhoulike leifmotifs in the midi of this map? I noticed parts of th16s stage 1 theme and okina's final boss theme in here, i think.

[Cutman 999]

MAP10 - “Hollow Oblivion” by Jason Fowler

 

Hollow is a good adjective to call this map. It takes less than 3 minutes, is just 4 rooms that end as quickly as it starts, with just brainless berserk shit. This should have been map 2 honestly, after that mess called playing like 3 exploratory kinds of mazes, this seems extremely undertuned. Also, how the fuck i get that soulsphere and why i can SoftLock if i SR50 into one of the rocks?

 

2/10

[Cilian]

Map10
Oddly short map to be placed right after much longer maps. It would make sense if it was an explosive action map like how doom 2's map07 follows map06 but no, it's a regular map that is very short. This map is also so short that I can comment on each fight of the map without long post laziness kicking in: the map begins with a LOT of hitscanners roaming around or standing on the middle platform which make quite a hot start that made me die once but when you know about it it's just about finding a good hiding spot and taking out all hitscanners slowly, which isn't that fun but not terrible. Next is a kind of pointless ambush when you step on the middle platform and an arachnotron and a chaingunner pop out, you run back, kill the chaingunner and grind down the arachnotron. Then there's a very cool fight that is probably one of the most fun in the wad so far, you take a berserk pack and a bunch of pinkies start lowering into the arena taking away your freedom of movement and trying to bite you to death, so you kill them one by one freeing yourself a little and keep wiggling until they all die. After that behind the door that leads out of the arena there are 2 barons that are meant to not let you escape the pinkie arena and cheese it but if you do it properly and open the exit room after dealing with the pinkies they feel like just time wasting bullet sponges (I think only one would have sufficed for anti-cheese purposes). I don't know what's the point of the berserk though, the way it's placed makes it look like it wants you to punch out the pinkies but you have so many shells that you can use the SSG to kill both the pinkies and the door barons without any ammo conservation. I suppose it's good to heal up.

Anyway the map ends with an unmarked (? maybe I didn't notice the exit sign but if it's there it's not super visible) exit switch that surprised me, both because it's unmarked and because the map was just a few minutes long. Overall it's an odd map, out of place and has almost nothing remarkable to it but the pinkie arena saves it.
 

Spoiler

Blind saveless, two attempts

 

[Azure_Horror]

I was playing the WAD along with the club, but it was kinda hard to say something definitive about the maps beyond "They're fun for me to play!".

I was waiting for some map to truly feel distinguished and special, and map 09 is exactly this map in my book. So here some reviews of mine...

 

One observation about the WAD as the whole:

I must say, the custom-made MIDIs by @Cammy are a real highlight of this megaWAD, IMO.

The wacky item sprites and the re-edits of 1997 IWAD-inspired levels are all good fun, but the music elevates everything to new heights.

 

Map 09 - Machine Gun Etiquette by Steve Duff

 

This name is on point! The hitscanners are everywhere, and thus the Chaingun is a crucial weapon. Bullets are not unlimited though. So deploying the chaingun smartly is important. One may say, that winning on this map requires a proper Machine Gun Etiquette. (Ba-Dum-Tss!)

 

Highlights of the map for me:

1) The big Toxic Pit room, with multiple ways to traverse the area, and creative enemy placement. The geometry of the place makes the fights very memorable, IMO. Typically, the "hitscanners from above" trope is employed with the help of dedicated guard towers. But in Machine Gun Etiquette Toxic Pit area, the elevated positions are more than the simple guard towers. They are proper locations for the player to explore. This requires different geometry. And this geometry, in turn, leads to some non-typical monster behaviour.

2) The Marble Column Room. With its non-orthogonal geometry and custom dark marble textures, the room looks very modern. Yet, it does feel like an organic part of the map, at least for me. Cool room in itself, and a cool piece in the sheer variety of locations on the map.

3) The cragged toxic pool section closer to the end of the level. Jagged borders of the pools/ceilings really make this place feel special. And the fights there are also good fun.

4) The blue Wolfenstein Room. Not only it looks cool, it also deploys the Wolf-Guards as an proper monsters, rather an a mere easter egg! This is hard to do without sprite edits, but Cammy and Steve Duff did succeed in this task. The Wolf-Guards don't look starkly outlandish, and they also play a dedicated combat role, as relatively Hig_Hp/Moderate_Damage hitscan enemies. Common zombies would not be the same...

5) The way different parts of the map connect to each other. Best part - returning to the start of the level from the exit room requires a jump through the window.

Truth to be told, the map is linear. But it didn't feel this way, when I was playing it. And such design is a good thing too, IMO.

6) Secrets. They were in general fun to look for, and they also were varied in difficulty, with some being pretty easy to find, while others - not so much. This is my favorite approach to secrets is a Doom level.

 

All in all, this is one of my favorite Doom levels I played in a while. Really diverse, really well done, and really cozy in its old-school ways.

 

Map 10 - Hollow Oblivion by Jason Fowler

 

Like the name Hollow Oblivion implies, Map 10 is a very desolate place.

It is a very small map too, with essentially only too proper rooms, each housing one combat encounter. But the fights themselves are quite lively, IMO. The map starts with a small, concentrated pandemonium of hitscanners (and imps, and 1 plasma spider), and the second battle is a dedicated pinky-fighting arena, berserk pack included. After the pinkies are dealt with, there are two barons to vanquis, one Exit-marked  staircase to climb, and one final switch to flip.

Hollow Oblivion is very small map. Arguably it is too small for its slot, given that the fights are not too hard too. However, I still like that one. I have a soft spot for tiny maps, I suppose... It also helps with pacing, as the previous few maps were much longer.

[Celestin]

MAP10: Hollow Oblivion by Jason Fowler

 

This one feels like a good speedmap - quick, punchy and straight to the point. Hollow Oblivion starts in a courtyard that is overflowing with hitscanners - a lack of armor makes this a surprisingly tough fight. The second challenge is a square room that gradually releases more and more pinkies - a berserk pack suggests you are expected to punch them all, but there is enough shells to beat this with a super shotgun. A pair of barons at the end is more of a nuisance than threat. 

 

Hollow Oblivion takes less then 5 minutes to complete, but offers condensed action.

[VoanHead]

Ik I'm getting a little bit ahead of myself here posting about my thots on maps a bit too early to the matching days, however I'm going to speed things up a bit since I have final exams due very soon and kinda wanna reserve time to practice & study. If not I'll just put this on hold and just later make a big post for the following maps if that's cool.

MAP 11: MARS STARPORT (Woof!, -complevel 2, -pistolstart, UV w/ saves)

Another hitscan heavy map, this time set in a building. Super shotgun is once again your best friend here in this map, easily mowing down the zombiemen and other cannon fodder enemies. The outside street area secret w/ the cacos and the soulsphere was practically the highlight of this map. Ik I'm going to sound repetitive but man what another banger of a funky midi track this one has, and kinda has a slight 90s influence if that makes any sense.

 

So far my thoughts on the Roc25 pwad as a whole has been it's pretty ok but has some rocking tunes, like it's a bit more ezpz than I thought it would be. I just hope things begin to ramp up in difficulty here after we're done covering this chapter and past the following intermission text screen.

[Roofi]

Map 09 : Machine Gun Etiquette

 

Quote

 

 

"Machine Gun Etiquette" is very odd map which acts like a sort of marathon of random disjointed ideas as the progression is mostly linear. Whereas the new version bring quite anecdotal visual touch-ups and don't try "fixing" the whole inconsistency of this map, the high-energy new music reinforces the idea of a sort of perilous obstacle course, turning this bizarre adventure into a heroic little ride where the hero kills a lot of hitscanners with his guns. I really like the curvy black marble section whereas I don't know why such hellish architecture figures so soon in this wad. I still don't understand the presence of nazis but I don't care and I probably didn't read something explaining their presence. Anyway, those must be considered as hitscanners as the others !

 

A map that I find fun in both versions, but the music reinforces its wacky, adventure-driven nature. One of my favorite maps from the first episode, along with map 08.

 

Grade : B (13/20) - old version

Grade : B+ (14,5/20) - new version

 

Spoiler

 

 

Map 10 : Hollow Oblivion

 

Quote

 

 

I didn't remember the map was originally so short. I wrongly thought the remastered edition cut off several sections in order to transform the last map of the episode as a sort of well-deserved break. The darkened outer areas are a good idea, giving me the feeling of performing a secret mission in an area somewhat hidden from the general public. It also helps to make the transition to the second episode, which is now much darker than in the original wad.

 

Despite its small size, the pinkie trap is particularly sadistic and denotes a marked improvement in combat in this map to make it a little more substantial.

 

Grade : C (9/20)  - old version

Grade : C+ (11/20) - new version

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[LadyMistDragon]

Map 10: Hollow Oblivion

by Jason Fowler

 

I did NOT expect this to be over so quickly, though I saw a review above which called this "short." So basically, we've got the hottest start imaginable, a little outpost absolutely crawling with hitscanners and an out-of-the-way Supercharge I can't be bothered to find but is no doubt essential for the Tyson runs of the blue key room. Although it's possible to see where each sector comes down, the amount of pinkies unleashed every time gets overwhelming eventually. Anyway, this sort of box-y design is about as 90s as it comes but damn if it doesn't play well regardless! Though having the blue door right after the red is always a goofy move. Midi's also pretty good, possibly one of the best but I wasn't paying lots of attention.

 

Note: 666 MB video, waddaya know?

 

 

 

 

 

[rehelekretep]

map06 fda

an exploratory map which i actually liked - the hidden fight wasnt too hidden. some strange choices (like the weird antechamber to the exit) but that adds to the 90s charm

map07 fda

didnt really know what was going on and then finished the map. quite fun!

map08 fda

this is where playing on cl -1 was a big mistake. im actually amazed i survived the final fight with no infighting.

map09 fda

inventive, odd - lots of gotchas. enjoyed this. i always like SS being used randomly in otherwise quite normal maps.

map10 fda

what a strange place to put such a small map. the start is absolutely brutal, but if you survive that you shouldnt have too much trouble (unless you miss a double-ssg shot on 2 chaingunners...)

[cannonball]

MAP10 - “Hollow Oblivion” by Jason Fowler

 

Last time;
 

Quote

This map exists for a minute then ends. Not much else to say. Completely forgettable as there is nothing really brilliant or blood boiling to this map. If this was twice the size it might be a good map.

 

This time;

 

This would be short, even in a wad like Scythe, but actually there isn't too much wrong with it. The start is hectic but given the lowish composition of chaingunners you can survive the start fairly reliably. You have the demon room that is quite neat and that is essentially it. The barons probably could have been swapped for hellknights as that is a little bit of a slog. Otherwise a good short map with enough going for it now.

PS - The rear side of the red key door needs aligning.

 

[SiFi270]

Map09: Now I've Learned Machine Gun Etiquitte. Ho Ho Ho.

Who am I to say what is or isn't "too '90s" when I was hoping the WolfSSes would still be in this version and delighted when it turned out they were. Looks like I'm just a big ol' fraud. Try to act surprised.

[UUN4]

MAP08: Research Lab

Spoiler

Nugget Doom 2.2.1 | -complevel 2/vanilla

UV | Pistol start | No saves

K: 99% | I: 97% | S: 60%

I'm not sure if this has been brought up, but I noticed that if you wanted to I think you can just barely skip the imp ambush when you grab the blue key since it doesn't seem to immediately trigger when you grab it. That aside, I had 1 death to the surprise sludge archvile since he unluckily revived the mancubus. The arachnotron ambush after the second fireblu switch surprised me, but I was able to take cover in time. I was not a fan of the slow-moving toxic slime platforms since it felt a little out of my control whether I took damage on them or not. I suppose the highlight fights of this map are where you get the rocket launcher after the set of teleporting reverse-stairs (and this encounter can be made much easier if you find the secret plasma rifle beforehand unlike me, although I suppose it would be less tense) and the final fight where a cyberdemon infights some hellknights before a spider mastermind shows up. The music this time is relatively slower but still fun to listen to, and I think it fits the general pace of this map.

 

MAP09: Machine Gun Etiquette

Spoiler

Nugget Doom 2.2.1 | -complevel 2/vanilla

UV | Pistol start | No saves*

K: 93% | I: 65% | S: 20%

I should've expected it from the title, but chaingunners are definitely an ever-present here, and they aren't afraid to snipe you. The map feels like it takes a hike in difficulty once you reach the outside area containing a big building with a roof full of shotgunners, chaingunners, and a secret megapsphere. While the secret megasphere does help, you'll be within the sightlines of a ton of monsters (namely revenants and the somewhat-eponymous chaingunners); I reached a point where I tried optimizing my starting strategy for the map to maintain as much health as possible, and despite that I still died a good amount of times. It also doesn't help that this map feels like an endurance test for being relatively early in the WAD since it feels like it takes a while to complete vs. what I played so far; if it was later on maybe I wouldn't mind as much. The use of the SS Nazi was kind of unexpected but I suppose foreshadowed by the wall texture used during their (chaotic) encounter. The map also ends off on a single ambush archvile (whose fire blasts I ate since I had enough health) which feels like it's trying to figuratively send a message, but I'm not sure what. Also, we get a good handful of rocket ammo prior to getting the actual rocket launcher, which felt weird to me unless I (likely) missed a secret RL earlier on. *One last thing that kind of irked me is that unless I missed some secret switch (which I feel like I might've), the teleporter in the slime pit of the gray room with 2 revenants (after the big courtyard area) straight up didn't work (I fell in there to see if the teleporter would take me anywhere secret or just back the way I came), so I idclip'd out of the pit since it felt a tiny bit bullshit; I tried doing more attempts to have a saveless run without idclipping, but I got frustrated and gave up. At the very least, the music track is really good and kept me motivated to play through the map.

 

[Pechudin]

MAP10 (UV, PS, Saveless)
Last map took me 30-odd minutes to beat, but this one is over in 3. The 60-monsters count melts away in the first room down to 20 because most of the opposition is Zombies. The Pinkie staggered fight is cool and something I will definitely yoink for myself though. I guess it's a nice breather after the 6-7-8-9 set of maps. Still, kinda dissapointingly short.

MAP11 (UV, PS, Saveless)
The map is pure filler, and most of the 100-odd enemies are just Zombies packed tight into the hallways and rooms. Boring. The spacecrafts are kinda cute though.

[Celestin]

MAP11: Mars Starport by Antoni Chan

 

The first episode of Realm of Chaos ends with a map that, while offering little challenge, is an adorably old-school piece of realistic mapping. There's a baggage handling area, locked security station, control tower - everything an airport needs. It all reminded me of MAP20 from Fragport - I wonder if Stephen Clark played the original ROC.

 

As for how the map plays, Pestov repeats his previous level, overstuffing its hallways with zombies and imps. Still, a difference between a generic techbase and a map with a clear vision is like night and day.

 

2 hours ago, UUN4 said:

*One last thing that kind of irked me is that unless I missed some secret switch (which I feel like I might've), the teleporter in the slime pit of the gray room with 2 revenants (after the big courtyard area) straight up didn't work (I fell in there to see if the teleporter would take me anywhere secret or just back the way I came), so I idclip'd out of the pit since it felt a tiny bit bullshit; I tried doing more attempts to have a saveless run without idclipping, but I got frustrated and gave up. At the very least, the music track is really good and kept me motivated to play through the map.

 

I've noticed this too, the teleporter is incorrectly tagged. I've already posted this in the development thread - the wad is still being beta-tested, so bugs might happen.

[Cammy]

I've fallen way behind...! Sorry for my inactivity here. On top of the typical holiday antics, working on a couple other projects has made this a pretty nutty month. For the record, I'm not offended at all if some of you guys dip out of the thread to play Sigil 2, or Eviternity 2, or UDINO. I've done that myself - an absolutely insane week for Doom!

 

I'll give my write-ups on the maps themselves later, but for now I'll reply to some stuff.

 

On 12/7/2023 at 12:35 PM, Cutman 999 said:

Also, that i don't like that it switched the texture scheme out of nowhere at the last second with its red stone hellish feel.

 

Actually, there was a brief time that I used that red rock texture (plus a couple other ones I added but have since removed) for almost all of the outdoor areas in episode 1. The names of maps 03 and 11 give away that RoC's first episode takes place on the surface of Mars, and I wanted to go with a red rock theme to enforce that, but I didn't end up pulling the trigger as it made some of the maps feel a little too different to me. Or maybe that's just me. The map08 elevator room is one of the only remaining vestiges of that theme because I just really dug the way it looked, especially compared to this room's flat stargray look in the original RoC. :)

 

On 12/8/2023 at 3:53 PM, VoanHead said:

I also wanted to note that gyatt DAMN does the midi in this map really have that DKC feel to it. I wonder if the secret maps midis will take on some inspiration from the bonus room themes of the same games.

 

Thank you! I'm really, really happy (and relieved) to have heard such a positive response to the music so far. I hold David Wise's music in incredibly high regard - he's one of the best to ever do it. My work being compared to his is almost as insane as this post to me. Rest assured, Wise and Tristan would both rip me to shreds in a music-off.

 

It's funny you should mention that about the secret maps, because map32's midi actually takes some inspiration from a bonus room theme from Donkey Kong 64. You were really close!

 

On 12/9/2023 at 9:22 AM, plums said:

So it turns out the "everything blue" recolour is a new invention by Cammy. It was too clean for a 90s project, but I assumed it was present in some form in the original RoC and it was just retouched. Not so! I salute your commitment to 90s-isms @Cammy. I'm also surprised there is no blue-invuln COLORMAP lump in that case! (Maybe there are just no invulnerabilities...)

 

Ha, blue invuln is a good idea! I'll have to throw that into RC2. The blue theme was largely my own design, but it's not without precedent, either - the ammo clip and shotgun shell sprites have that cool silver/blue theme in '96, too. TMT even went the extra mile and made the shells blue in the SSG's reload animation. But why stop there? It's a little thing that helps the original stand out from other wads, and I thought it would be fun to quadruple down on it, hence all the blue in this wad.

 

As a side note, some people mentioned liking the Mancubus's new blue fireballs. The only reason those were also made blue is because they share explosion graphics with rockets.

 

On 12/9/2023 at 4:29 PM, cannonball said:

Okay digression time already, but it will be a discussion in the mind of everyone, in regards to this wad. How much do you change in each map when remastering it? How much is worth your time and is doing too much removing the "Soul" of the author's original work?

 

It bears repeating that it's a very difficult balance to strike, and it hurts not to have a guidebook on it. Not that a guidebook could really ever be made. This is the kind of thing that is simply impossible to come to a consensus on, so the easiest thing to do is to just do what feels right. As a consequence there are maps in this wad I could have changed more, and maps in this wad that I worry I changed too much. I have to admit, Machine Gun Etiquette was one of the more difficult levels in the wad to restructure, at least for me, because of how linear it is, the lack of a clear theme, and the fact that the layout is packed so tightly in on itself. Sometimes you can rearrange the layout of a map to make things connect in a more logical way, but MGE is such a tightly-woven ramen block of a layout that it didn't feel worth it to try restructuring it.

 

Ultimately, the less I stress out about establishing and following a set of rules to follow that can be trusted to preserve soul, the more energy I have left over to instead stress out about whether stuff needs changing or if my music is good.

 

Even with all that said, though, I'd love to do another project like this again, after I've recovered from spending so much time in this chaotic realm. Not sure what wad it would be for, though. I'm open to suggestions.

 

On 12/9/2023 at 5:59 PM, Cutman 999 said:

is me or there are touhoulike leifmotifs in the midi of this map? I noticed parts of th16s stage 1 theme and okina's final boss theme in here, i think.

 

Damn, another comparison to Touhou! Again, I didn't directly sample any music other than my own for RoC25's soundtrack, but I'm becoming increasingly aware of the similarity between my style and ZUN's. Lots of strong melodies with a call-and-response structure, a general proclivity for high speed, and liberal use of simple key changes. Map09's midi fits that description perfectly and uses a ton of brass, so it's overflowing with Touhou vibes. Wish I was as good (and as productive) as ZUN. But if the consensus on my musical style is that it's Donkey Kong Country mixed with Touhou, I'm very happy to take that.

 

There actually was one time that I took conscious inspiration from a Touhou song for one of my midis, which was The Knives That Carved the Megalith from the TNT MIDI Pack. The final part of that midi was inspired by The Sea Where One's Home Planet Reflects, the final stage theme from Touhou 15. Someone noticed.

 

23 hours ago, VoanHead said:

I just hope things begin to ramp up in difficulty here after we're done covering this chapter and past the following intermission text screen.

 

They will.