How do I git gud?

[Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen]

I love Doom and Doom 2, and my favorite way of playing all those great fan made WADs is playing each map with pistol start, on UV, and going for 100% kills and secrets (I am not interested in speed running).

My skill level could be called average I guess, so I wonder where to go from here. Sure, I play for fun, but to me part of the fun is getting better. Most recently I played through Nostalgia. I love this WAD and moved right on to Nostalgia 2, but I am also aware of these two WADs being considered rather easy in terms of their difficulty (playing each map with pistol start, on UV, and going for 100% kills and secrets).

 

How can I improve my skills? I am not ready yet for crazy high level stuff, but there must be something in between to push myself out of my comfort zone. So that's what I'm looking for. Does that make sense? Any WADs you would recommend to achieve this goal? Anything else I should do? Any input would be highly appreciated!

 

I have played many WADs over time, but I can't remember all their names, and I'm not sure which ones I played on HMP or where I used saves, plus I didn't complete the ones where I lost interest half way through. So please feel free to suggest whatever you think makes sense, even if they are very popular and you think everybody has already played them.

 

Recently I uploaded some videos on YT, just because I liked the maps. Maybe this helps to get an idea of how I play.

 

Disclaimer: I wrote "blind" because it was my first time making it to the end of each map shown, but that also means I had seen parts of them before. So maybe "blind" is not that accurate. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Thank you!

[Akagi666]

Plutonia, if you haven't played it already. Plutonia 2, Going Down, Scythe, Speed of Doom, Ancient Aliens, Valiant. Scythe 2 is on the harder side though.

[Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen]

41 minutes ago, Akagi666 said:

Plutonia, if you haven't played it already. Plutonia 2, Going Down, Scythe, Speed of Doom, Ancient Aliens, Valiant. Scythe 2 is on the harder side though.

 

Thanks! I have already played all of them but it might have been on HMP, or with saves, or single segment, or maybe I didn't finish them at all, so I'll revisit. I'm pretty sure I didn't like Plutonia though.

[Akagi666]

1 minute ago, Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen said:

 

Thanks! I have already played all of them but it might have been on HMP, or with saves, or single segment, or maybe I didn't finish them at all, so I'll revisit. I'm pretty sure I didn't like Plutonia though.

This was intended to mean play them on UV, pistol start, saveless.

[Lila Feuer]

I would sooner recommend Sunlust to you on HMP than Scythe II on UV, the last five maps via the latter are insane.

Alien Vendetta is pretty easy until you get to MAP25 and MAP26, those will test you on UV.

[Shepardus]

Here's my tried and true method:

1. Download D5DA3
2. Play MAP23
3. Fail to beat MAP23
4. Watch other players beat it effortlessly
5. Give up on Doom forever

[kalensar]

One idea that I can think of that may surprise ya is to use a different source port rather than GZD. PrBoom+, DSDA, and Woof would be good. The reason is not because that there's anything wrong with GZD, but that with Boom style ports your PC can handle the harder map sets that have way larger monster counts. The Boom ports use less CPU on rendering than GZD and instead can focus on running the game more fluidly. Example being that my Potato cant run NUTS.wad on GZD at all, but runs it pretty smooth in PrBoom+. 

[TheLippyServer]

If you've played Speed of Doom on UV then it's kind of hard to recommend something that wouldn't generelly be seen as difficult. Scythe 2 maybe. It gets pretty extra at the end there. Map 25 can pound all the sand.

[Wahrnehmungskrieg]

1 hour ago, Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen said:

How can I improve my skills? I am not ready yet for crazy high level stuff, but there must be something in between to push myself out of my comfort zone.

 

Speed of Doom, as mentioned by others already, is literally the perfect WAD for this. It is paced so immaculately for all skill levels that just playing that alone doing nothing else will bring you high enough to a vantage you can improve from then on, indefinitely, by your lonesome.

 

But there are a couple of general principles, regardless of WAD, you can apply:

- Replay levels you have beaten, but importantly, those that you survived albeit with significant difficulty. Because you know the maps, you won't be thrown off by what's in them and you can start using them as a testbed for different strategies (this is key: even if you think you have a fight half-nailed, try something weird and it might work) and hone the tactical skills (aiming, positioning, etc.) that are the bedrock to more sprawling fights. Also, replaying the same fight over and over will engender consistency, which is the crucial thing for every single skill whether Doom or non-Doom.

- Watch demos / videos of other people tackling the maps you have already beaten. How they attain victory might surprise you, and their knowledge becomes yours. (That you've beaten the map is important, because you can compare your own vision of the map with someone other's.)

- To improve quickly, play smaller maps (sub 20-min on a first time run), because you'll learn their ins-and-outs faster.

- With these maps, if you've used saves to beat it, restrict your saving over time as you keep replaying it until you can beat it saveless. You needn't go straight from save-often to save-never, but merely permit yourself saves in fewer and fewer spaces (if you save in-fight, you can progress to only saving in guaranteed safe-spots in a fight, to only saving between encounters, to never saving). I think some Hitman games limit number-of-saves-per-level on higher difficulties -- gaining the confidence of knowing that you'll be able to survive a fight / string of fights whilst refraining from such checkpoints will act as a milestone to allow you to keep pushing further.

- Never play when tilted.

[SPG]

For potential recommendations sticking with official materials as opposed to recommending other WADs. and not suggesting the usual other ideas such as Nightmare, pacifist, tyson, etc.:
1. Turning off auto-run and not using a sprint button.
2. Keyboard only
3. Avoid getting any health pickups.

[Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen]

3 hours ago, Shepardus said:

1. Watch other players beat it effortlessly

 

How did they do this?

 

And why do all the good players use this? 

 

3 hours ago, SPG said:

For potential recommendations sticking with official materials as opposed to recommending other WADs. and not suggesting the usual other ideas such as Nightmare, pacifist, tyson, etc.:
1. Turning off auto-run and not using a sprint button.
2. Keyboard only
3. Avoid getting any health pickups.

 

Or maybe playing with only hand? I can't tell if you're serious.

[Amaruψ]

3 hours ago, SPG said:

For potential recommendations sticking with official materials as opposed to recommending other WADs. and not suggesting the usual other ideas such as Nightmare, pacifist, tyson, etc.:
1. Turning off auto-run and not using a sprint button.
2. Keyboard only
3. Avoid getting any health pickups.

 

This feels like a self-inflicted torture session than an useful tip to actually get better at the game. 

[Stabbey]

11 minutes ago, Bedingungsl.Grundeinkommen said:

 

How did they do this?

 

And why do all the good players use this? 

 

 

Or maybe playing with only hand? I can't tell if you're serious.

 

I would take none of that seriously. It's not going to teach you how to play normally, and in fact will only frustrate you.

 

People use that ugly HUD because they like it for some reason. It has nothing to do with their skill. There is no correlation between HUD and skill.

 

To get better, play more. THAT'S ALL. The map which worked for me was Epic 2, it has a slow ramp-up from simple to full-on slaughter at the end, but it pulled it off well.

[Artyoman]

Try beating maps without saves, or at least with saves in secrets. I usually play with saves in secrets and I've beaten plutonia on UV for the first time like that, and I feel like I got better not only at Doom but at all retro FPS games overall

[Deadwing]

1 - Pick a tough setpiece from a wad you like and save before triggering it 

2 - Try to beat the whole fight without saving. (watch other players perform it if it's too difficult too)

3 - Keep repeating until you are able to survive twice or 3 times in a row.

4 - Repeat the process with a different setpiece

 

That should help you deal with different kinds of setpieces, but ofc, doom skills is varied and incidental fights are also part of the challenge as well. Knowing the best tactic and movement to perform is an important part of Doom's difficult, something that you'll get with more experience playing against harder stuff.

 

There are also some techniques that you will have to research and learn as well, such as many BFG techniques like 2-shot cyberdemons, or handling Revanants tracking missiles with 8 patterns, for example. And as for setpieces, knowing which weapon to use, priorize targets and handle lack of space and resources are probably the most important things.

Edited May 6 by Deadwing

[D4NUK1]

My take it's to try to play every level of overboard without mid saves, as a short was but with punishing monsters and 

Different gimmicks you will be tested, there are 6 levels + 6 of the same levels but harder.

[fruity lerlups]

I did a whole playthrough of Rush practicing each map meticulously, its all about practice my friend. I am amazed i actually pulled this off and am currently doing it with NGMVT1, in fact youve inspired me to practice another playthrough for it!

Here's me practicing and playing through an incredibly difficult map with multiple attempts! 

 so you get an idea of how that looks

[SPG]

To respond to OP and another post, yes, I was serious, and while difficult at times, I did do the first 2 myself for Episode 1 and wouldn't call it torture. I confess #3 might not be feasible, that was just an idea I was throwing out.

[Tiramisu]

Following Goku's tried and proven method of training, you must apply training weights onto your Doomguy - using Dehacked, gradually reduce his speed until you reach 10% of the normal value. With that, train on Plutonia until you're able to beat it, then remove your training weights, and bam - you can go straight to Sunder and Okuplok!

 

...Okay, sorry I'm kidding ofc :P

 

What I actually wanted to say, is that something specific that I feel helped me improve a bit recently was deliberate running - as in, walking most of the time and only running when I actually think I need to (EDIT: in combat I mean, not like, for travel obviously lol). I'm not saying it's a viable strategy long-term (probably not), but it certainly makes you think a lot more about tactics in combat - so I feel it is a good learning experience, at least for people like me who tend to run around a lot for the sake of it.

Edited May 6 by Tiramisu

[Amaruψ]

Still not a good tip at improving at a game. This is akin to telling someone "play the game with your hands tied while on a unicycle, you'll get better I swear" while there's much less ridiculous ways of accomplishing the goal.

[dasho]

 

[Dheta]

Play on UV, go for all kills, don't use mid fight saves and play progressively harder wads. https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/107015-wad-progression-for-skill-improvement/ is somewhat out of date and lacking options post Sunlust but its a great baseline till then. once you beaten Sunlust there's and ocean of difficult wads you can tackle. 

 

Personally I've never bothered with Single Segment runs, harder maps are overwhelmingly on the longer side in my experience and dealing with large difficult maps is quite a time investment. If you do go that route stick with shorter maps for your own sanity's sake. Hard fights will force you to "git gud" on their own or at least that's how it was for me, so I don't see the point in doing Single Segments if your only goal is to improve.

 

 

 

[rita remton]

apart from playing more maps, there is another "pathway to many abilities some consider to be... unnatural..." :P

you could use the [ultimate doom builder] map editor to increase your gaming skills. simply recreate your handicap in the map editor, then practice until you are satisfied with your progress. such focus in training in areas that actually need improvement allows for a much faster growth.

you could use this method to increase platforming skills, double shotting cybies, punching revvies, etc. i used this method to eradicate any lingering fear of playing slaughter maps, like my map below (made within the first half hour i've ever used udb). i conquered it after about 200-300 attempts (no longer counted after the 200 mark). quite stressful due to my amateurish gaming skills, but many players should be able to achieve the goal with far fewer attempts. anyway, good luck with your journey to become a better player :)

 

[hello wad].

[Andromeda]

8 hours ago, Shepardus said:

• Download D5DA3
• Play MAP23

Alternatively, Grindfest MAP12.

[GarrettChan]

4 hours ago, Stabbey said:

People use that ugly HUD because they like it for some reason.

 

Well, it seems you have a strong taste against this :P

[Zerofuchs]

I'm very off/on with things, so I'll tend to not play Doom for months on end while other things engage my interest (currently, X4 and making my mini map pack).
I've found that, as with most things, regular practice helps. Certainly irregular play results in many skill growth setbacks as the rust needs to be blown off repeatedly.

 

The other thing is... you need to learn the game a bit, not just intuit your way through. Targeted practice of weak skills for example (I still fail regularly at dodging Revenant rockets despite having faced tens of thousands of them by this point). Watching other players does help somewhat, although you can only learn so much through osmosis. Watching specific guides can help a lot. One could even use SLADE or UDB to make some simple practice arenas - like a Pinky Punching Pit, or a Revenant Rocket Room.

 

Since you record videos already, you can use those as a form of self-analysis. Figure out your weak points from where you most struggle in the footage, and work on those specifically.

 

Of course, simply throwing yourself at an extra challenging WAD will improve your skills, a particularly notable case of this is Decino throwing himself at Sunlust. But that requires a degree of toleration for frustration which may defeat the purpose of playing in the first place. The sense of achievement afterwards can be notable, but the gauntlet of a mega-hard map pack may also put you off Doom entirely for a while. Multiple have been suggested at this point, but personally I favour Scythe quite a lot, I'll also practice SF2012 a bit when I want to gear up for a slaughtermap.

 

That said we each have our talents, including as a Doom player, and to improve beyond a given level will give you diminishing returns on effort - pace yourself to keep it fun, take a rest when you feel like your skills are backsliding, because while growth is admirable as a goal - seeking it beyond one's natural limits requires a determination to keep at it even when it stops being fun. Much like any other regular hobby.

[DiavoJinx]

I'm a big fan of Uncle Iroh's advice: "It is important to draw wisdom from different places. If you take it from only one place it becomes rigid and stale."

One thing I did not appreciate about Doom 2016 was almost all combat scenarios were "locked in an arena, run around like a crazy person, mandatory kill everything before you can move on".  Me, I like corridors and smaller/tighter spaces, where a one-on-one fight with a "medium" level monster is actually significant.

In the past year I've been lurking here again (from lurking a couple of decades ago) and on r/Doom (ugh, not at fan at all) I've observed that the general 2020s opinion of Doom gameplay is that I just described of Doom 2016, and if you're playing the classics then only UV matters: go fast, get swarmed, slaughter all en masse.

Gameplay between the difficulty levels can actually play out differently, and thus teach you different ways of approach to handle a situation.  Doom has amazing horror & balanced gameplay, which can be experienced in the classics.

 

Play the original 2 games' levels, not on UV. Or if anyone can recommend WADs where the creator properly set the 3 main difficult tiers different.

 

My advice is to turn auto-run off.  Use Shift to run when you actually need it, as the game was designed.  We don't have to be Sonic the Hedgehog at all times / by default. ;-)

 

Basically my advice in all that is: slow down. =)  That should help one with positional awareness and intentionally dodging which is different than not getting hit because you're always moving fast.

[vanilla_d00m]

You are already good, after reading you're post I see you as a MASTER OF DOOM.  I tried Speed Of Doom mod years ago.. I deleted it right after.  

 

I use keyboard only and HMP.. and I save every STEPS I make.  I wanted to get better but no point if im not having fun doing that.  HMP Forever.

[lukasxd]

My advice is to go out and live your life and play videogames with the sole propose of entertainment. We waste many time in something fruitless like be good at videogames.

 

If you really want to become good, play against other players in duel. That was fun :)

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

Zero Master sold me some of these and they work pretty good.