Risen3D Sunk

[Hobbs]

Wacky you are displaying a fucking massive amount of retardism and you're on my ignore list

And BBG is still a douche

[zap610]

insertwackynamehere said:

this isn't an "I'm leaving! :(" message this is just stating my views.

That's a shame.

[darknation]

insertwackynamehere said:

the typo is in my title. read it and you'll get the joke. i know it's "defensive"

also one last thing. I've said this before but here it is again.

WRONG. Mindlessly restating the same WRONG facts and the same RETARDED point of view over and over and over again is what got your dumb ass kicked yesterday. Repeat the same WRONG and RETARDED information once or do it fifty times. It doesn't matter. It is still WRONG and RETARDED no matter how often you say it. Repeat it like a mantra if you want while you hug yourself and cry yourself to sleep. It is still WRONG and RETARDED.

I stated my views, like a lot of people in this thread. However, when people saw they were posted by me, they all start targeting what I said and made it an issue. If you want to disagree with something I said, that's fine. But the fact is, I know it isn't so much what I said but because I said it.

No, it's because you are WRONG and RETARDED and the only way to get the correct information into your thick skull is to write it really small on a sledgehammer and smash your fucking brains in.

In the news post ITSELF, Ling calls the people the GNU gestapo. I don't see him being questioned and harrassed for saying pretty much what I was getting at the whole time.

#1) Ling is a better troll than I am. #2) Ling is a sarcastic, bitter, twisted, hollow shell of a human being. It is running a site full of spastics like YOU that has ruined his humanity.

My points were a) the binaries existed and could be downloaded if one was willing to ignore the GPL because they wanted to play old levels and b) a lot of people were becoming overly sensitive to the GNU issue. I do not think the Risen3D team should have been exempt from releasing the source. However, the way I see things, the GNU is supposed to create LESS legal problems for the end user than MORE.

You may not remember some shit storm with CSdoom a few years ago, when the port was shipped out with a backdoor in the code that could (in theory) be used for evil ends. This is why the source code is IMPORTANT for other reasons than legal bullshit. You want to install some shit into your computer that is closed and from some masturbating sack of pus in his mother's basement without knowing exactly what it does, that's your call. You can eat frosties laced with rat poison as well for all I care. It ammounts the same thing, i.e: retarded ignorance. We'll get to the ethical and moral implications later.

This does not appear to be the case in this situation, but that's my opinion.

Read that again, idiot. I'll rephrase it for you. THIS APPEARS TO BE WRONG, BUT I EMBRACE THIS WRONGNESS LIKE THE FUCKING MONGOLID SHITEATING MONKEY I AM.

I'm acting defensive because I'm getting derided by people from all over. If you disagree that is FINE. I'm not trying to force what I believe onto you.

then shut your fucking hole and stop speaking shit.

Also, I have been on these boards for over 3 or 4 years now. I generally just post regular stuff, back 2 years ago I did do stupid stuff, but okay lets look at this.

Your idea of 'regular' is other people's idea of insipid bullshit. We could delete you from the database and I seriously doubt anyone would notice because your positive impact on this forum has been nil and your 'ideas', if you can call the tripe that you shit onto this board 'ideas', have been of the lowest intelectual level. Nor in your 'four years' have you been funny. Ever. You are the biggest waste of bandwidth this forum has ever seen. Even the flesh that covers your bones could be put to better use, even if it was only as a series of Spastic Skin handbags.

Deathz0r destroyed NewDoom,

Hero.

BBG was, from what I hear, a huge spammer/douche but I don't see him doing that crap anymore. Same with a lot of other people who are now respected, a lot of them had a past which they now understand was kind of stupid. You can try to rationalize all you want, but I don't say anything that's anymore stupid than anyone else. I'm just targeted, everytime I post, out of predetermined anger.

you are WRONG and you are RETARDED. You are not targeted because of anything 'predetermined', other than the certain knowelege that anything that comes out of youre mouth is 'predetermined' to be %100 total and utter garbage. You are still in the middle of your "kind of stupid" phase after FOUR FUCKING YEARS. You are still the same fucking idiot. You can't just suddenly say, "Hey guys, I am no longer a dumbass" and then not provide the evidence. You are a fucking retard until I tell you you are not a fucking retard.

I don't plan to leave because I don't have any reason to. This is an internet community which I enjoy because I enjoy the game it represents. However it bothers me that I can't just say things without an entire flamewar erupting. Just because people such as darknation perpetuate my alleged "stupidity" because of the way I acted here when I was like 14 or 15,

See above. You have mot matured, you have not grown, you are still the same lowest form of intellectual and cultural scum on this forum. You are the bottom of the food chain.

it doesn't mean I'm still like that. Same with my old title. Darknation is a troll, every member will tell you that, and you don't feed trolls .

It is possible to troll with truth. It's fine and fun to wind people up, but I prefer to tell it as it is. You are a retard. This is a fact. This is a troll, and this is also the truth. You don't have to feed me, I will keep on fucking hammering you with this truth until either the stupid runs out of your ears like hot wax or you die.

I ignore dn, and if that's how he is, so what? He'll probably have some witty sophomoric response to this and it's just how he is. Everyone else meanwhile feeds into it because they accept it. I don't really care, I mean in the end it's just the internet. And that's what dn does, I'm not like a noob who can't handle being insulted by the guy who insults everyone.

Wrong. I insult those who need insulting. I tell people who need to shape up and stop being retarded to do so. You can ignore the message and continue being a dipshit or you can shut the fuck up and start learning.

And no matter how dn replies to this, he does insult everyone and I'm not a special case, the only reason he focuses on me is not because I feed it but because everyone else does.

You are a special case. You are the only idiot I know on here that is seemingly immune to logic. It's not a case of other people feeding me. It's a case of them all AGREEING with me. It is their opinion. And it is neither WRONG nor RETARDED.

You. Are. A. Fucking. Mong.

[insertwackynamehere]

see what did I say? dn's post gave me a good laugh, but its all I expected.

[Sharessa]

DN wins the thread. Wacky still fails at life.

[darknation]

it's like getting smacked repeatedly between the eyes with a concrete dildo trying to get anywhere with you. Can't you see that I am fucking correct? What do you need, a bunch of signatures telling you that people fucking hate you for ligitimate reasons, the very same reasons that I have painstakingly provided you with?

Ignore me at your peril. You will be on your deathbed having blithely ignored all sound advice. Even fucking jesus would slap the shit out of you at this point.

[Csonicgo]

Wacky, I used to be like you. I got my ass kicked around like a soccerball. Here's a tip: Sometimes it's best to think about what you're saying, and ask yourself, "Am I a complete mong for posting this? Do I know all the facts to make a sensible argument?"

Of course you'll probably ignore this.

[Hobbs]

You're still almost as fucking retarded as wacky

[Csonicgo]

HobbsTiger1 said:

You're still almost as fucking retarded as wacky

I've gotten a lot better over the months. I used to be Gargantuan retarded.

[Linguica]

If you morons want to shit up a thread as much as you are why don't you go take it to blogs or some shit.

[insertwackynamehere]

i don't need advice from the forum troll, about teh internets. I don't have this problem in real life, it's only here.

[TheDarkArchon]

Here's a hint. If your in a particularily deep hole, digging in it is generally a bad idea

[Bastet Furry]

@insertwackynamehere:
http://fileanchor.com/61474-r.jpg

Someone from the staff, please close this thread -.-

[darknation]

insertwackynamehere said:

i don't need advice from the forum troll, about teh internets. I don't have this problem in real life, it's only here.

none as blind as those who refuse to see. None as retarded as those who refuse to use their brains. Someone ought to rip your eys out and crack open your skull, give those unused organs to someone more likely to use them. Maybe they can trade you for a pair of balls.

[Linguica]

Bastet Furry said:

Someone from the staff, please close this thread -.-

How about I just loser dn and wacky for a while

[Little Faith]

What about an admin excises all Wackys crap and DN's useless rebuttals and moves them to Post Hell.

This, can of course still be combined with some losering.

[deathbringer]

DN's post at the top of the page is quite possibly the best flame i have ever read. And i used to visit Matthew Shepard boards

[Schneelocke]

darknation said:

You may not remember some shit storm with CSdoom a few years ago, when the port was shipped out with a backdoor in the code that could (in theory) be used for evil ends. This is why the source code is IMPORTANT for other reasons than legal bullshit.

Just to add something constructive to the debate: how do you know that the binaries are actually produced from the exact source code you're downloading, instead of a bugged version?

Of course, source will help you if you compile it yourself[1], but binaries still have to be trusted either way. :)

1. Not counting the fact that the C compiler itself may be bugged - see Ken Thompson's classic "Reflections on Trusting Trust" talk. But I guess that this is a problem you can mostly ignore when you're only worrying about backdoors in DOOM source ports. :)

EDIT: fixed grammar. D'oh.

[RottKing]

I love you guys.

[Csonicgo]

RottKing said:

I love you guys.

agreed, this thread is legendary.

[iori]

Anders said:

Hahaha, this is comedy gold!

Pretty much my sentiments, I enjoyed every minute of this one.

[Craigs]

Wacky, it's not a matter of what you think is right or what's not right. This is a matter of law. You can complain about how stupid we're acting or how dumb these laws are, but you still have to follow them. Bitching about it here isn't going to change it all. We don't make the laws buddy. That's the governments job, if you've got a problem with the GPL or whatever it's called, take it up with them.

[Bastet Furry]

Craigs said:

Wacky, it's not a matter of what you think is right or what's not right. This is a matter of law. You can complain about how stupid we're acting or how dumb these laws are, but you still have to follow them. Bitching about it here isn't going to change it all. We don't make the laws buddy. That's the governments job, if you've got a problem with the GPL or whatever it's called, take it up with them.

What he said. Cant append to it. ^_^

[Quasar]

Yeah, go yank on Richard Stallman's beard, hahahaha!

[Bastet Furry]

The GPL is one of the best things that could happen to the computer world, so shut up and go back to your stupid happyhackerland windows.

[LexiMax]

Schneelocke said:

Just to add something constructive to the debate: how do you know that the binaries are actually produced from the exact source code you're downloading, instead of a bugged version?

You can't. But it won't add up. Source is distributed with a either a workspace/project file that allows an IDE to easily compile the program, or a makefile so a toolchain such as GNU's Toolchain (make, cc, etc.). When someone tries to compile that file themself and gets a different binary size, assuming the compiler versions are the same, people will begin to suspect something.

And what would you have to gain from it anyway? You would only be able to fool someone once, after that you would either have to release your tainted code (in said case, your project would be forked and people would just rip out the bad code anyway), or keep releasing untainted source (which people could just compile and provide community binaries for anyway, so what would be the point?).

There is actually a very good example of where official binaries differ from source, and that is the Windows port of X-Chat 2. zed, the official maintainer, decided to charge money for his official Windows build, since maintaining the Windows build was a huge pain in the ass for him. But that didn't mean he had to retract the source. Therefore, you can either purchase zed's official Windows build for a fee, or you can download one of any number of free builds that are maintained by the community.

So yeah, it's possible, but you'd only fool people once, and after that you would have nothing to gain.

[Cacodemon]

AlexMax said:
When someone tries to compile that file themself and gets a different binary size, assuming the compiler versions are the same, people will begin to suspect something.

Well, that's right but you also need to have the same compiler flags (optimization, architecture and so on) to get a binary that should be exactely identical with the distributed one.

[Schneelocke]

AlexMax said:

You can't. But it won't add up. Source is distributed with a either a workspace/project file that allows an IDE to easily compile the program, or a makefile so a toolchain such as GNU's Toolchain (make, cc, etc.). When someone tries to compile that file themself and gets a different binary size, assuming the compiler versions are the same, people will begin to suspect something.

*Assuming* that the compiler used, the rest of the toolchain and the architecture are all exactly the same and that you used the same optimisation options etc. (Just try setting CFLAGS to something non-standard before you run configure / make, for example.)

Besides... when was the last time you downloaded binaries for some project and then compiled it yourself to see whether you would get a byte-exact match? (And if you actually do this and something doesn't match, do you assume that the author inserted a backdoor into the binaries, or do you assume that your toolchain, compiler options etc. didn't match perfectly after all?)

And what would you have to gain from it anyway? You would only be able to fool someone once, after that you would either have to release your tainted code (in said case, your project would be forked and people would just rip out the bad code anyway), or keep releasing untainted source (which people could just compile and provide community binaries for anyway, so what would be the point?).

What do people ever gain from writing/distributing malware, trojans etc.? Yes, someone *could* just provide community binaries, but you're assuming that the whole thing actually gets noticed (otherwise, why would anyone?), and you're also assuming that the author couldn't already gain something. Depending on what kind of backdoor you're talking about, it might well be worth it even if you can exploit it only for a limited time.

And FWIW, not all backdoors would have to be as obvious as the one in csDoom, anyway. Would you notice an off-by-one error leading to an exploitable buffer overflow in some port's server code? I know I probably wouldn't, unless I was actually and actively hunting for things like that.

There is actually a very good example of where official binaries differ from source, and that is the Windows port of X-Chat 2. zed, the official maintainer, decided to charge money for his official Windows build, since maintaining the Windows build was a huge pain in the ass for him. But that didn't mean he had to retract the source. Therefore, you can either purchase zed's official Windows build for a fee, or you can download one of any number of free builds that are maintained by the community.

So yeah, it's possible, but you'd only fool people once, and after that you would have nothing to gain.

I'm not sure how X-Chat is related. People are providing unofficial builds for X-Chat because the official ones cost *money*; if they didn't, nobody would bother. (And for that matter, back when they didn't, nobody *did* bother, at least as far as I know.)

Overall, it's not something I'd worry about. But blindly assuming that published source code means that the published binaries were produced from that exact source code is not always correct; and assuming that if they weren't, this'd be noticed right away (or at least soon) also isn't.

Not that it probably matters much, but you should keep in mind that whenever you run someone else's binaries, you're at risk, and published source code will only help with unintentional holes, not with intentional backdoors that the attacker is actively trying to conceal from you.

[Kelzam]

Amazing how little it takes to drag all of the trolls out of the woods.

So, does anyone have anything thats important to say, or is all that there is left is to try and make eachother look stupider with every post? Because the people going back and forth needn't worry about making eachother look stupid, they're doing a well enough job for themselves.

Risen 3D broke copyright on the JDoom source. Deep stole the Risen 3D code. What comes around goes around. 'Nuff said.

[Sharessa]

<Julian> ZDOOM==SHIT
<Julian> nuff said
<Isle> Julian: whos nuff?