Optimus Posted March 12, 2011 From Doom2, I just remembered MAP13, Downtown. Lot's of secrets there. There is one memorable one that took me quite a while to figure how to get it and it rocked hard. In the beginning outside, there is a building/heightened area with two spiders inside and a soul sphere. If you go to the left, follow the arrow, inside the room with the crates, near the button that let's you out in the backyard, there are some crates touching the wall, if you press them they go down and reveal another button. This button raises some stairs from the oposite side of the crate back to you, where you go up and are teleported in a high ledge left to the beginning of the level. From there you can run towards the spider building and get the soul sphere. So many neat ideas here. 0 Share this post Link to post
DeumReaper Posted March 12, 2011 For me, Doom2 Map03 Jumping into that area with the soulsphere/invisibilty D2 Map16 1. Near the start in the room with all the imps, you get on a small rectangle platform, and from there you can shoot the red eyes on the green face to open an area. Nice use of height-based shooting triggers. 2.The square building on the level's border that you have to enter through the back door, by passing through the skull linedef, back then I wasn't used to secrets like passable walls, see map28* D2 Map23 when exiting the initial area, when you turn around and pick up the megasphere hiding in the alcove D2 Map27 The starting area where you go to the first monster's placement, opens the wall to find...more monsters! Similar place inside the 'library' where the chaingunners show up D2 Map28 The map is full of secrets, even to beat the level, but I was amused when I discovered the opendoor linedefs with the candles next to them (the other starting area besides the blackout one); also the spine texture area where you can shoot the 3 walls for different effects; *in the spine hallway when I finally figured out where the enemies were shooting from, an area hidden by a linedef. D2 Map30 Of course discovering Romero. Also not really a secret but I was very suprised the first time being telefragged by a spawn cube when I was playing a godmode killing spree. 0 Share this post Link to post
Graf Zahl Posted March 12, 2011 All the secrets in E1M3 and E1M7 are very well done. To this day these 2 maps are still the best showcases how to do secrets right. 0 Share this post Link to post
kristus Posted March 12, 2011 Graf Zahl said:All the secrets in E1M3 and E1M7 are very well done. To this day these 2 maps are still the best showcases how to do secrets right. QFT. 0 Share this post Link to post
Lorenzo Posted March 12, 2011 The best secret is the one you don't get ;-) E1M1, the outdoor area. You can see it since the beginning, and going there is just really cool. 0 Share this post Link to post
The_MártonJános Posted March 12, 2011 To be honest, E1's secrets impressed me as well as the others in here. But I didn't mentioned which ones were the ones really standing out. Now I do!: - E1M1's third secret which I tracked down years, years later than I first played through that level. - The entire E1M2 computer maze. I didn't even know that was before, so I was just surprised seeing that the nukage-surrounded switch does something. It was actually on my fourth playthrough of the map. - E1M3 - rocket launcher secret, secret exit, and the answer to my question why I was supposed to pick that yellow key up. - E1M5 - the teleporter secret by what I was quite disappointed it just took me near the beginning in the level. - E1M6 - that long tunnel to the goods by which I managed to bypass the usage of the yellow key. Also the one beneath the blue key. - E1M7 - the chainsaw and the blursphere secrets were fascinating. - E2M1 - the plasmarifle one. I could never imagine how I should do a backtracking over there. - E2M2 - the one containing the rocket launcher. Same as for E1M3, the yellow key was the clue to half of the hidden goods. - E2M3 - the soulsphere one and the hidden pathways connecting from the Megaarmor room. - E2M4 - as mentioned above. Those two secrets were just so awesome. - E2M5 - duh, this level really knows how to hide entire rooms behind little signs. I spent a hard day on what that friggin' switch in the vine maze could have done. The answer impressed me. Also the one with the secret exit. - E2M7 - E2 really enjoys using switches whose actions are not obvious. Another reason hunting I spent on searching for what the hell that friggin' switch does in front of the COMPOHSO room and the other behind the secret red key door. It resulted in backtracking a la E2M1. - E3M3 - the "heavy water" secret wasn't that obvious that it seemed to be. I really enjoyed tracking it down, though. - E3M5 - like E1M3, I was wondering why I was supposed to get a yellow key. And voilá!, a red writing on a wall showed me what I was curious of... also, the sladwall secret ruled. - E3M6 - that pain-in-the-ass secret exit ground up whole days, weeks, even months for me to solve. - E4M1 - the act of opening a secret door from inside and then getting outside made my eyes round. Not mentioning NIN. - E4M2 - Cyberdemon uber telefrag - BFG - secret exit. - E4M3 - 19 secret rooms on each other! - E4M6 - passages from left and right. Nothing surprised me since I really had known Romero's skills for hiding secrets. - E4M7 - half of that level is actually only a filler. That's why some players feel that the level ought to be a secret one. Blue skull, yellow skull, fighting Cyberdemon - and it's simply evitable by running straight forward... - E4M8 - secrets that are NOT marked as secrets. They always made me think about them. - E4M9 - maybe the entire level should be considered as a weird secret? It just makes me feel like it was designed for Deathmatch or something - pointless runningaround spaces, actions and stupid teleporters taking you to places you've been in thousand times before feature it all over. 0 Share this post Link to post
Megamur Posted March 12, 2011 Cell said:- The entire E1M2 computer maze. I didn't even know that was before, so I was just surprised seeing that the nukage-surrounded switch does something. It was actually on my fourth playthrough of the map. Good one to mention. Practically one-third to half of the whole level is behind a secret door. Real gutsy move, and something you'd never see in a modern game. Also, I shamefully admit to having never found E4M9. Then again, I've only played E4 a handful of times, since I honestly didn't like it very much. 0 Share this post Link to post
Mithran Denizen Posted March 12, 2011 The maze section in E1M2 may not be entirely obvious, but it's not really a secret, either. Its entrance is also in full view when you leave the room with the switch. Meh. Anyway, I was just replaying E4M2, which is one of the few maps which I really like in E4. I found a hidden switch that raises a huge platform out if the lava, connecting the smaller sections that you otherwise need to jump between. I didn't know that was there, so that's kind of cool. 0 Share this post Link to post
Megamur Posted March 12, 2011 Another thing I love about DOOM: you can play it for years and still not see everything. 0 Share this post Link to post
elic Posted March 13, 2011 Mithran Denizen said:Anyway, I was just replaying E4M2, which is one of the few maps which I really like in E4. I found a hidden switch that raises a huge platform out if the lava, connecting the smaller sections that you otherwise need to jump between. I didn't know that was there, so that's kind of cool. That one is hard, but still a lot easier than the one in E3M6. It's similar to a lot of E1 secrets where a platform is lowered. I forgot about the teleporter secret in that level. That one's probably the best in the game, cuz you get to kill a Cyber... ...by just walking. 0 Share this post Link to post
The_MártonJános Posted March 13, 2011 To mention one more: that friggin' closing door in MAP27 just forced the living shit out of me running constantly all over and all over the level, punching and switching everything in my pathway just to find a solution to open that damn corner. Later it turned out that I was supposed to get there in the first 30 seconds of playing the level. Meh. Mithran Denizen said:The maze section in E1M2 may not be entirely obvious, but it's not really a secret, either. Its entrance is also in full view when you leave the room with the switch. Meh. Are you trying to explain this to my 11-year-old self, too? 0 Share this post Link to post
Megamur Posted March 13, 2011 Wow, I didn't even know any of the original DOOM maps even used that "30-second door" thing. See? More stuff I didn't know about! 0 Share this post Link to post
Marnetmar Posted March 13, 2011 Megamur said:Wow, I didn't even know any of the original DOOM maps even used that "30-second door" thing. See? More stuff I didn't know about! E1M6 used it for the red key trap. 0 Share this post Link to post
Megamur Posted March 13, 2011 Not that. I was thinking about sector effect 10: door close stay after 30 seconds. 0 Share this post Link to post
Creaphis Posted March 13, 2011 Marnetmar said:E1M6 used it for the red key trap. Nope, that's a linedef action. The secret in MAP27 uses a sector effect; any sector with that effect will close like a door 30 seconds after the level starts. That effect is almost never used, and the one that opens and closes* a door five minutes after the level starts is used so little that I only just barely remembered that it exists. *Your editor probably says this is a "door open stay" effect. It's actually "door open wait close." 0 Share this post Link to post
elic Posted March 13, 2011 Does anyone actually know what the door open/close after five minuets action is for? 0 Share this post Link to post
Megamur Posted March 13, 2011 I guess for if you want a secret area that the player must reach within a certain period of time, lest it be shut off from access permanently. 0 Share this post Link to post
purist Posted March 13, 2011 But if it's open, wait, close, wouldn't the player need to, not only reach the door within five minutes but pretty much dead on five minutes? If the player got there on four minutes the door would remain closed. Unless the player knew about the sector tag they'd most likely move on and miss it. The secret door theory would make more sense if it was used to close a door that starts open after five minutes. I suppose it could be used to force a player to survive an onslaught while keeping in an area with no other way out. Or for a voodoo script, but neither of the usages would have been used in the original Doom so it doesn't explain it's creation. On topic: I like secrets within secrets and one's that make me feel clever for finding them. I dislike secrets that require tough jumps or straferunning because I'm not very good at it and I usually give up wondering if there's another way to reach them. The best thing about secrets are they allow you to play the level in a different way to playing it linearly such as giving you the means to play more aggressively or providing you with an alternative route. 0 Share this post Link to post
Megamur Posted March 13, 2011 I suppose that sector effect could be useful for, say, having it block a teleporter line in a dummy sector that will release a floodgate of monsters after five minutes, but I have no clue where it's employed in the original games, if at all. 0 Share this post Link to post
Mithran Denizen Posted March 13, 2011 It's not in any of the stock maps at all, but it's been used to various effect in a few PWADs. Edit: This thread discusses it further. 0 Share this post Link to post
Creaphis Posted March 14, 2011 Since the Doom engine was very much "made to order" the only reason that this sector effect would be implemented would be if one of the level designers wanted to use it in a map. It'd be interesting to know who requested that this effect be added, and what they were planning to do with it. 0 Share this post Link to post
General Rainbow Bacon Posted March 14, 2011 In some of my maps I've made secrets that are only available before doing something. Like, once you take a key, a stash of ammo gets closed off forever. Some of my favorite secrets include the chainsaw in e1m2, the outside area in e1m7, that long string in e2m2, the berserk pack area in e3m3, finding the secret exit to Map 15. That's all i can think of right now. 0 Share this post Link to post
elic Posted March 14, 2011 DoomHero85 said:In some of my maps I've made secrets that are only available before doing something. Like, once you take a key, a stash of ammo gets closed off forever. I fucking hate secrets like that. They don't require any effort and getting to them is complete luck. I usually save health and ammo until I actually need it, but how am I supposed to know that the path to one medkit or cell pack is gonna close? The only way you'll be able to get to them is if you play the map over and over again. It also sucks trying to search the map for a secret that your never going to find cuz it's now blocked off. It should ALWAYS be possible to achieve 100% Kills/Secrets/Items EVENTUALLY during any point of gameplay IMHO. 0 Share this post Link to post
General Rainbow Bacon Posted March 14, 2011 I kinda make mine easy to find though. And they aren't the good ones. The level I'm talking about is that temple level for the episode I was working on, which I will get back to soon, where if you jump down before getting the blue key a small alcove with a teleporter and ammo is open, but once you grab the key, it closes. Maybe, I'll take that one out and put in one that doesn't do that though. 0 Share this post Link to post
Varis Alpha Posted March 14, 2011 Also, does anybody hate people hiding neccesities in secrets, like medkits? 0 Share this post Link to post
Snakes Posted March 14, 2011 Medkits aren't necessities, and are perfect for secrets. I've always felt that secrets should contain things that will make the current challenge a little easier, such as more ammo or health. Mandatory secrets, like keys and switches required to finish the map... That's not my sort of style. 0 Share this post Link to post
Megamur Posted March 14, 2011 Well, a medikit isn't a necessity if the health balance in the level is good. If it's gotten to a point that you've grabbed all the regular health pickups and are only barely scraping by with health you find in secrets, the level designer needs to consider adding more supplies. Secrets should make things easier--they shouldn't be key to your survival. 0 Share this post Link to post
The_MártonJános Posted March 14, 2011 Snakes said:Mandatory secrets, like keys and switches required to finish the map... That's not my sort of style. Guess what! Wolfenstein 3-D E4L5, E4L7! :D 0 Share this post Link to post
Megamur Posted March 14, 2011 Heck, if you go by the old WAD Designers' Handbook, hiding necessary items (whether it be keys, switches, or even badly-needed weapons) inside secrets is considered a style error. 0 Share this post Link to post
Clonehunter Posted March 14, 2011 Mine is E1M3 Soulsphere secret, because I just had no clue how to reach that damn thing. I just stared at it for the longest time, pouting and frustrating on how to get it. 0 Share this post Link to post