Heretic: Treasure Chest - PLEASE FILL IN SLOTS!

[Creaphis]

myk said:

The Heretic engine is based on Doom v1.2, and PWAD flat support was added in a later version of the Doom engine.

To make the flats work in Heretic+, use:

deutex -heretic heretic-dir -flats -append pwad-path

heretic-dir is the path to the directory with heretic.wad
pwad-path is the path to the PWAD file to append flats to

For example:

deutex -heretic d:\games\heretic\ -flats -append d:\desktop\cemetary.wad

Make sure you're using a copy of the resource PWAD because DeuTex will add Heretic's flats to it.

This is interesting, because it seemed that the new flats were all working in Heretic+ before the last round of attempted fixes. But I'll trust you that the pwad flat support has always been incomplete.

[duvel]

Hey, I'm back a bit early, but I'm going to be gone for another while. Nice work.

On Kaiser's map, we can move some switches no problem. Does the current sector type transfer voodoo dolls in vanilla heretic? This is a heretic feature, and it should work, but I'm not totally sure if they took out voodoo dolls or something. It would be worth looking into. Compatibility problems are to be FIXED, not to be looked at and then "oh map won't work, oh well".

Pretty sure the flat problem is an oddity as I remember maps actually working without having to use deutex. For example, I can run E3M7 in Heretic+ without encountering the error you ran into. It may be worth rechecking your file params.

Dreadopp tells me someone wants E5M2 so I'll add them. Other than that, I'm off for another long while.

[myk]

I tested a Heretic PWAD with a new flat placed between FF_START and F_END, and while it worked for a bit once, each other time I ran it Heretic crashed (unlike in the case above where it terminates with the flat missing error). Do make sure the resource WAD is being loaded, if it's separate from the levels WAD.

EDIT: Weird, I split the WAD into a resource WAD and a level WAD and it worked fine, then merged them, and no crash either.

It does work then... make sure all the flats are between FF_START and F_END.

[Lord_Z]

I must be doing something wrong then because the ones that worked for me do not appear to use any textures from the resource wad. Deutex does not want to open the wads either. It says it can't open them for reading. Perhaps it's best if someone else, who knows what they are doing, does compatibility testing...

[myk]

It sounds like Heretic+ is not reading the resource WAD. The problem may be in the command line. Make sure each PWAD includes its full path unless it is in the same directory as the executable, and add the WAD extension. Example (assuming files are in the EXE's dir):

Heretic -file levels.wad resource.wad

[Lord_Z]

That's what I did. I have the wads in the same directory but, as you say, it can't seem to read it properly.

[Creaphis]

I have no ideas how to fix the texture wad problem. Random textures and flats seem to stop working at random times for random people. I've already rebuilt the texture wad with Deutex once and that evidently didn't help it. So this is out of my hands now. I hope someone else can find something that consistently works.

I've done experiments before, and voodoo dolls work as you would expect in vanilla Heretic. Voodoo dolls are also affected by scrolling and wind sectors, thus conveyor scripting is possible (if some ACS scripts need to be replaced). So, Kaiser's map should easily be brought to compatibility.

[duvel]

Bump to remind people that we have a status check ongoing. Sorry I couldn't have bumped sooner, I was away. Back for a while now though, so feel free to hurl whatever you need to at me.

[Creaphis]

Well, we still need to find someone willing and able to sort out our texture wad woes.

And I've been dealing with too much stuff irl to make much progress with my level, unfortunately.

[Kirby]

HUUURRRRLLLLLL



Still going, for what it's worth :P

[duvel]

Looking good!

[kimo_xvirus]

I tested some maps with Heretic+ on DOSBox
I will write the command line I used for each map.
HERETICP.EXE & the maps & the newest resource.wad were all in the same directory

E2M1
hereticp -file resource.wad E2M1.WAD -warp 2 1
I tested every area in this map and it's all compatible with no glitches

E3M8
hereticp -file resource.wad E3M8.WAD -warp 3 8
I tested most of this map but not every area, and it had no glitches

E3M9
hereticp -file resource.wad E3M9.WAD -warp 1 9
The map has graphical glitches for the right and left windows right when you being and the sky floor has a colorful line in it
Note: we need to replace the sky floor because it's never rendered correctly in vanilla heretic nor heretic+

E4M2
hereticp -file resource.wad E4M2.WAD -warp 4 2
This map has many graphical glitches
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/7175/e4m2glitchrp9.jpg

E4M4
hereticp -file resource.wad E4M4.WAD -warp 4 4
This map has many graphical glitches

E5M1
hereticp -file resource.wad E5M1.WAD -warp 5 1
This map has many graphical glitches

I think people really need to test their maps with heretic+ not zdoom or any other modern source port

[Remiel]

Hi!

I can't be arsed this late to write anything, so until the next update call here's a screenshot. Feel free to point out everything that's wrong with it!

[Vermil]

Well, the project is for "limit removing port's", not Vanilla Heretic.

[Lord_Z]

kimo_xvirus said...
The map has graphical glitches for the right and left windows right when you being and the sky floor has a colorful line in it

I am not sure I can fix either of those things. The HOMs at the beginning happen because there is no upper texture on the walls and if there were, it would look just as bad. I don't know why this happens in Vanilla or Heretic+. The sky line is something to do with the texture pack, I believe, and the whole episode would probably have it. I am not sure how to fix this either.

By the way ler, did you manage to change my map from E1M9 to E3M9? I forgot to do it after I changed slots.

[kimo_xvirus]

^^ HereticPlus is a limit removing port which I used to test the maps

[duvel]

It's becoming increasingly hard to stick to using Heretic+ for mapping because of some of these oddities. Try playing E3M7 in Heretic+ and you can't even do anything in it, and I couldn't imagine why (well maybe the sky floor at the end). Heretic+ is about as "limit removing" as it gets but it still seems to have lots of the errors that vanilla has. Also, I'm not even sure how many people are so hardcore for "oldschool" that they use Heretic+. However we ARE aiming for limit removing compat and Heretic+ is pretty much it without the presence of a port like prboom or something for Heretic. So stand fast and keep mapping, and hey, look at how much we have done that we didn't before.

Edit: Kimo_Xvirus has kindly fixed some maps! His own e2m1 is now completely compatible as well as e4m2 and e4m4 minus a texture that doesn't like to work.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

I'd just aim for limit-removing port compatibility and let people use w/e port works fine (usually ZDoom/GZDoom as Heretic ports are thin on the ground compared to Doom). It's not that hard to check a map to ensure it's using vanilla format and not ZDoom format.


btw can I snag E4M5 for my as-yet-unconverted former PII map? (the non-Heretic style one is in CC4 now)

[duvel]

No problem.

[esselfortium]

The Ultimate DooMer said:

I'd just aim for limit-removing port compatibility and let people use w/e port works fine (usually ZDoom/GZDoom as Heretic ports are thin on the ground compared to Doom).

Heretic+ is a limit-removing port, though. In fact it's pretty much the exact definition of one, as it's a modified version of Heretic.exe that greatly increases its limits. Making this only compatible with ZDoom but only using vanilla Heretic features would be kind of silly, assuming all the map bugs can be corrected.

[Gez]

Heretic+ is like the lowest common denominator. If it can run in H+, it can run in ZDoom, jHeretic, Vavoom, and probably even Legacy.

[JadedLexi]

Is it not too late to try and rejoin and take one of the E4 or E5 maps?

[Creaphis]

Gez said:

Heretic+ is like the lowest common denominator. If it can run in H+, it can run in ZDoom, jHeretic, Vavoom, and probably even Legacy.

The problem, though, is inexplicable issues that stop that engine from loading the textures consistently. Is there a different lowest-common-denominator Heretic port with a few added improvements that we could use as a basis?

[Lord_Z]

KingofFlames said...
Is it not too late to try and rejoin and take one of the E4 or E5 maps?

I'm sure it's fine if you join. We can use all the mappers we can get.

Relating to Heretic+, I may have figured out why I was having problems. I renamed the resource.wad to MEDIVALTX so I knew what it was but when I ran it, it did not work. However, I renamed back to resource.wad and it worked fine. I don't know why it does this but it seems to work now.

[Creaphis]

I think there's a filename length limit for pwad loading for these old engines.

[Lord_Z]

I think it's 8 because, looking at the file names, MEDIVALTX is 9 letters and it doesn't work and resource is 8 and it does work. I am just glad it works now.

[esselfortium]

That would be it, yeah. The original wad was named MEDIVLTX.WAD, I believe.

[Creaphis]

Well okay then.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Mine is 95% complete or so, it's all converted ok despite having to use stalagmites as makeshift trees and sunken serpent torches as candles...now onto the monsters...

[duvel]

Today is the last day for people to post their updates. Where is everyone :(