This little rant might offend some of you but.....

Ct_red_pants said:

“It’s like a tornado blowing through a garbage dumb and all the rubbish landing together and forming a Boeing 747” as one smart fellow put it.

If you give it a couple billion years, that might actually happen.

THERE ARE NO PANTS.

Yes, but without order there is chaos, and why is order present in everything? Why do laws of physics exist at all? You're dodging the issue.

That wasn't the issue. The issue as stated in this thread concerned why this presumed "God" doesn't care about human suffering. There are two very separate definitions of God which we must get clear here - one is used to explain why the universe was created in the first place, the other focuses on God's relation to humans. This thread was about the latter - and it's ridiculous to connect the two.

As for superstrings, that is a nice theory but is based on a 7/8 dimensional universe and completely unexplained in terms of the mathematics. Even so, why would it exist?

You've gotten it wrong. Superstrings can be explained perfectly well in terms of mathematics, the only problem we face with the theories is that we cannot yet prove them in practical experiments.

DooMBoy said:

You state that like it's a well-known fact. As far as I'm concerned, it isn't.

heh. And this "god" thing is?

What good would it do for me to tell you that I believe in God? It wouldn't do any good, because you would keep coming up with counter-questions and there's no way you can tell someone what you think or feel when they're not going to listen.

DooMBoy said:

What good would it do for me to tell you that I believe in God? It wouldn't do any good, because you would keep coming up with counter-questions and there's no way you can tell someone what you think or feel when they're not going to listen.

That was a sorry excuse for leaving the argument.

DooMBoy said:

What good would it do for me to tell you that I believe in God? It wouldn't do any good, because you would keep coming up with counter-questions and there's no way you can tell someone what you think or feel when they're not going to listen.

Does it really matter what everyone else thinks? and why should you tell people that you believe in god? if you believe in god then fine, but you don't have to tell everybody about it, that will just cause arguments, this is a stupid thread and i am sick of this same question being asked, god is only real if you believe in him, for those who don't then he isn't, why argue about it all the bloody time?

Vampirajay said:

Does it really matter what everyone else thinks? and why should you tell people that you believe in god? if you believe in god then fine, but you don't have to tell everybody about it, that will just cause arguments, this is a stupid thread and i am sick of this same question being asked, god is only real if you believe in him, for those who don't then he isn't, why argue about it all the bloody time?

so believing I won't die if I jump off the Empire State Building makes it true?

boris said:
THERE ARE NO PANTS.

Oh we're going to make it personal are we? :P

Fredrik said:

That wasn't the issue. The issue as stated in this thread concerned why this presumed "God" doesn't care about human suffering. There are two very separate definitions of God which we must get clear here - one is used to explain why the universe was created in the first place, the other focuses on God's relation to humans. This thread was about the latter - and it's ridiculous to connect the two.

I didn't bother answering that issue:

I said:

This "Why does God allows all these evil things?" argument is lame, pathetic and unbelievably retarded.

I said the first bit in reply to your dodging the existence of God, because apparently it is all 'laws of physics' and nothing more.

As for the mathematics of string theory, there are many different variations - M Theory, K Theory etc., none of which are able to provide predictions - which is a significant problem, particularly as it is not possible to experiment.

I said the first bit in reply to your dodging the existence of God, because apparently it is all 'laws of physics' and nothing more.

I didn't dodge the existence of God, I defied the opinion that God had a human-like intention of design when he supposedly created the universe.

Shaviro said:

so believing I won't die if I jump off the Empire State Building makes it true?

Don't be stupid and don't twist my words like that...all i am saying is that if your faith is real to you then it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, I don't give a shit what any of you think about my religion, why should i? i don't flaunt it like everyone else, what i believe is real to me and therefore has nothing to do with anyone else!

Shaviro said:

so believing I won't die if I jump off the Empire State Building makes it true?

"Free your mind Neo... "


.. Heh.

Vampirajay said:
here we go again! simple solution,
YOU believe there is a god=then there is one
YOU don't believe there is a god=the there isn't one
YOU believe god lets bad things happen=then he is a twat
YOU believe god is good and has a plan for us=then god id a great guy!

it is completly up to what YOU believe...it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks!

I really don't know what I believe. Every time I try to commit to one side or the other, I always end up with a "but on the other hand..." which is slowly sending me nuts. it 50/50 with me.... either one could be right. I don't whant to be a fence sitter. But that's just how my mind works. I just don't belive that science disproves god exstince.

Shaviro said:

That was a sorry excuse for leaving the argument.

I was stating a fact. If you don't listen, you won't understand.

then you have every right to question everything? the only time you don't IMO is when you say your are one thing and then change your mind, if you honestly can't decide, maybe you should choose something else?

/me cluches his head and falls to the floor.

AHHHHHHHHHUUUUUUGGGH! MY BRAIN!

If there is a God why has he allowed this thread to come into existence?

fraggle said:

If there is a God why has he allowed this thread to come into existence?

He figured we had life a bit too easy so he thought he'd give us hell by letting this thread become what it is...

I knew it this thread was turning ugly! :( Why didn't someone delete when they had a chance?

Lizardcommando said:

I knew it this thread was turning ugly! :( Why didn't someone delete when they had a chance?

There's no reason to delete a post just because it's likely to create a discussion.

Hmm, it seemed more likely to start a flamewar. But since it seems like alot of people are joining in. I guess there's no need to worry.

Yeah, thereds like this is what the Rants & Raves fourm is for.

and look! we hevent even resorted to childish name calling!

If all religions are the same, then why do they teach so differently, and in many places, contradictory to one another?

*The belief of Christianity will exclude all other religions.

*The belief of Hinduism will embrace practically all kinds of deities.

*The belief of Buddhism denies the existence of a personal, supreme God.

*The belief of Islam will preclude the belief and worship of all the other deities and "isms".

What about evolution? In reality, life, with its complexities, cannot come from inorganic matters without any external intelligence or help. Can plasters, timbers and nails, when left on their own, organize themselves into a house or an apartment? Can an explosion in a printing shop shop result in an unabridged dictionary being produced? They can't and neither can the complexity of life evolve from inorganic matters by itself without an external intelligence, no matter how long the time element may be.

Every living thing is made up of trillions of living cells. The simplest living cell consists of millions of parts put together simultaneously without which it cannot live. All our technology and know-how today cannot even create "a fraction of a fraction" of a living cell.

Each cell has a DNA which is the genetic code of the species. It is estimated that there is enough information in each DNA to fill up 1,000 volumes of the Encyclopedia Britannica. Every creature has its own DNA. The DNA will determine what species it will be, how it will grow and develop, when the parts will be formed, what parts each cell will produce and what parts it will not, etc. Can such a highly complex DNA exist through the process of chance or accident? No, it can't!

The Second Law of Thermodynamics, simple stated, teaches that all things, living or non-living, are heading towards disorderliness rather than to something more organized or complex. If we were to leave an apple or a dead animal alone, it will rot and decompose, it will not evolve into something more complex. Likewise, if we let alone a car or a house for a long time, it will rust and break down.

Another thing on evolution...There are variations (micro-evolution)- crossbreeding of dogs or cats will produce different kinds of dogs or cats. But cats do not evolve into dogs (macro-evolution).

Last thing here...If evolution is true, then we will still be witnessing life being formed from inorganic matters or some creatures still in the evolutionary process. We can't see any of them today in spite of the tens of thousands of varieties of species around us.

I just had to throw all that in....:)


Cadman - Member TeamTNT

I've posted things on this about a million times, so this time I'm not going to tell you what I feel, but I'm going to give all of you know-it-alls some philosophical advice.

Don't look at religion and science as two different things, but as one. This may seem to cause conflict, but it makes logical sense. Science is never definite, because one tested hypothesis can disprove it. Though nothing can be "proved" in religion, we can look at what makes logical sense to ourselves. Science works on logic, and if there is a god, logic is what he/she/it gave us to figure things out. And so just as science changes, we should not stay stone solid in out beliefs if something pushes us to no longer believe that. But remember that whatever you may think, there's infinite chance that you could be wrong.

I believe in a sort or creative entity simply because of existance. And I believe in Karma because science dictates that for every reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction, and that flows pretty well with the idea of Karma. You don't have to believe me, and that's fine. Just try to remember that anything is in possibility.

[Edit] Though I believe in evolution, I'd like to commend Cadman on his points and arguments [/Edit]

If there's a god(s) and he/she/it/they can talk to people, would he please tell tele-evangelists to shut the fuck up and stop perverting religion! And also please tell the Vatican that they failed. They continue to fail children that are supposed to be able to trust them.

I wouldn't blame God for not stopping death. We're the one slowly destroying his planet. If I was a god, I would of created apoc for you long ago.

I believe there's a God, angels, and such. I don't believe in organized religion though.

Saying that there's no God because bad things happen is just stupid. Bad things happen. That's life. God exists, and so does the Devil. It's just like saying that the Devil can't exist if good things happen.

Everything happens for a reason. I believe the reason that September 11th happened for many reasons. It opened up the world's eyes to the problems we choose to ignore everyday. I also believe it's a test to see how we will handle a crisis. With hate, or love? I think we lost that test. We bombed the hell out of Afganistan. That ain't love.

Also, people dying is sad, but it brings family and friends together, and makes us cherish life.

Why is "People dying is sad"? According to God's word heaven is a much better place than this,so "People dying" is a good thing surely?

fodders said:

Why is "People dying is sad"? According to God's word heaven is a much better place than this,so "People dying" is a good thing surely?

People are afraid of death. Seeing other people die reminds us of our own mortality. It's an irrational fear, I know, and religion says there's something better waiting for us after death, but... Just human nature, I suppose.

A local newspaper up here has a column by some priest. I was reading the other week about how he said there might not be a big bang and all and God is true because the speed of light might not be constant. He went and dismissed all other theories about the origin of the universe and how life came in to about because it didn't really make much sense. What, and some God who was there before everything just making stuff up makes sense? Why was God always there? My main question in regards to that is how was he always there. But why should one thing that was there before the beginning of the universe be different to something else that was there before the beginning? Religion in that sense is fucked because the people who believe in it don't allow their minds to be open to other possibilities. I can't provide the answers as to how the universe started, but that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore every single possibility, from Gods to big-bangs.
If there is a God and an afterlife, I'll say hi to him. Most probably before he ships me off to hell, which is a small complaint I have about Christianity - if Mother Theresa was, say, Bhuddist, and was just as much a humanitarian as she was, she'd probably go to hell for not believing in God. What about the Indians of America and the Aboriginies of Australia back before Europeans invaded? They surely hadn't heard of the bible or God, so did every single last one of them go to hell?
Someone could probably provide counter-points for those, but personally I'd just prefer to be the best person I can be without having to devote my life or beliefs to a God who may or may not exist.