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chungy
Doomworld is so about bullshit excuses


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AFAIK, the GPL wouldn't prevent software licensed under it from linking against proprietary libraries (otherwise GPL software on Windows should be illegal, I'd think), but libraries licensed under the GPL cannot be used by incompatibly-licensed programs (would've said "proprietary", but there are free software licenses incompatible with the GPL, so heh).
Old Post 06-26-09 09:25 #
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Graf Zahl
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That depends on whether the linked library has to be considered part of the application or not. If not, no problem. If yes, it can't be done.
Old Post 06-26-09 09:45 #
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fraggle
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MikeRS said:
AFAIK, the GPL wouldn't prevent software licensed under it from linking against proprietary libraries (otherwise GPL software on Windows should be illegal, I'd think), but libraries licensed under the GPL cannot be used by incompatibly-licensed programs (would've said "proprietary", but there are free software licenses incompatible with the GPL, so heh).
Actually, it does. The GPL only says that you can link against "system libraries" (ie. the libraries that are part of the standard operating system) without providing source. If you link to any other library, that has to be GPL compatible as well.
Old Post 06-26-09 12:46 #
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GreyGhost
a ghost... only grey


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Graf Zahl said:
Don't you mean Allegro? Legacy never used FMOD (it couldn't even if it wanted due to the GPL.)
Maybe they shouldn't have but they did.

Extract from legacy.doc/whatsnew.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
WHAT'S NEW
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Doom Legacy 1.41 (October 2003)
=====================================

-
-
- support of MP3 and OGG Vorbis under win32 using fmod (ignored for now on other OS)

Old Post 06-26-09 16:44 #
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andrewj
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Yeah, the legacy 1.42 package for Win32 contains fmod.dll

Bleh!
Old Post 06-27-09 03:53 #
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myk
webbed digits


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You shouldn't be surprised. Legacy was a complete license fuck.

It contained Raven sources, too, back then when the Raven code was still proprietary.
Old Post 06-27-09 04:55 #
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chungy
Doomworld is so about bullshit excuses


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myk said:
You shouldn't be surprised. Legacy was a complete license fuck.

Heh, just like ZDoom
Old Post 06-27-09 05:07 #
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esselfortium
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MikeRS said:

Heh, just like ZDoom

ZDoom doesn't claim to be under the GPL.

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Old Post 06-27-09 05:08 #
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Super Jamie
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And isn't it pretty much just OPL Emulation and FMOD that stops ZDoom from being GPL-able anyway?
Old Post 06-27-09 05:13 #
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InsanityBringer
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A bit of build code in the renderer also stops it from being GPL.
Old Post 06-27-09 05:52 #
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Graf Zahl
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The Build code is the biggest obstacle.

The OPL code can easily be dropped and if really necessary FMOD, too, but not the rendering code.
Old Post 06-27-09 07:46 #
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andrewj
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Graf Zahl said:
The Build code is the biggest obstacle.

How much code are we talking about?

If it's just some slope drawing code, then I bet you or Randy could re-implement that in a single weekend.
Old Post 06-27-09 13:54 #
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Graf Zahl
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Actually it's considerable parts of the software renderer.

And no, I couldn't re-implement that in a weekend. The entire software renderer is giving me headaches and I won't work on that code.
Old Post 06-27-09 17:48 #
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kristus
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How about using Cardboard instead?
Old Post 06-27-09 17:51 #
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Graf Zahl
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Can it do everything ZDoom can?
Old Post 06-27-09 18:45 #
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GhostlyDeath
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Graf Zahl said:
Don't you mean Allegro? Legacy never used FMOD (it couldn't even if it wanted due to the GPL.)


DOS Legacy used Allegro
Windows Legacy used FMOD
Linux Legacy used SDL

ReMooD uses only SDL now and any bugs existing in SDL Legacy were fixed.

And Legacy broke lots of licensing stuff. It used GPL Doom Code, Heretic License Heretic Code, ripped a few resources off some IWADs.
Old Post 06-27-09 20:51 #
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Graf Zahl
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GhostlyDeath said:



Windows Legacy used FMOD



Only for digital music formats. And it didn't do even that right. Had they used FMod exclusively for sound I'm sure that 1.42 would have run much more stable than it did.
Old Post 06-27-09 21:39 #
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kristus
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No Legacy used FMod long before it supported MP3 files.
Old Post 06-27-09 22:03 #
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Graf Zahl
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Not according to the 1.42 source I have.
Old Post 06-27-09 22:08 #
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cybdmn
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I have an Legacy 1.32 Win32 here which uses Allegro according to the docs. Seems, that Allegro was a good choice back then, i remember, that Boom used Allegro too. The main reason was, that the sound subsystem wasn't made by id. Instead they licenced it. So the initial source code, as provided by Bernd Kreimeier had no sound.
I remember, that the first linux ports suffered from that problem, because, they had no sound.
Old Post 06-28-09 11:16 #
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Edward850
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Graf Zahl said:
Can it do everything ZDoom can?

Once Eternity implements slopes, apparently so. (assuming that its Eternity that uses the Cardboard render)
Old Post 06-28-09 11:52 #
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printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT


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Then WinMBF it is; thanks for the suggestions. Pardon noob question, but what does GPL state about deletion? I want to delete parts I don't like. I'll just have to explain what I've deleted? Actually I suspect I have to keep unwanted code commented out, for posterity, not gone.
Old Post 07-06-09 18:14 #
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Graf Zahl
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'modify' includes deleting.
Old Post 07-06-09 18:21 #
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Quasar
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printz said:
Then WinMBF it is; thanks for the suggestions. Pardon noob question, but what does GPL state about deletion? I want to delete parts I don't like. I'll just have to explain what I've deleted? Actually I suspect I have to keep unwanted code commented out, for posterity, not gone.

Then be sure to check out the source from SVN; do not base anything off the released Build 2 source. I have gone through and fixed all the fatal crash bugs from BOOM and MBF, as well as improved the sound engine to work with EE's backend properly - however that part is not finished and needs additional work.

Aside from that, and needing to add the code to set processor affinity masks to stop SDL crashes, the port is nearly complete, and I anticipate releasing Build 3 officially sometime this summer. If you're impatient you could probably fix the latter problem on your own by copying the code in from EE.
Old Post 07-06-09 19:02 #
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GhostlyDeath
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What are you going to name it?
Old Post 07-06-09 19:07 #
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Mike.Reiner
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Graf Zahl said:



Only for digital music formats. And it didn't do even that right. Had they used FMod exclusively for sound I'm sure that 1.42 would have run much more stable than it did.

In hindsight I don't know why so many of us put up with how unstable Legacy was. 1.42 was actually worse than 1.41b. (Just try playing it with midi files it doesn't like, such as Alien Vendetta: Instant crash unless you disabled midi.)

I loved how if you changed the volume it's idea of doing this was to actually change the volume your window's mixer is at (For sound effects, not midi I mean.)
Old Post 07-06-09 22:43 #
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Super Jamie
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I loved Legacy at the time. I thought it was the best sourceport and nothing would ever be better.

Then I loaded a map with a voodoo doll :)
Old Post 07-06-09 22:51 #
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GhostlyDeath
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Super Jamie said:
I loved Legacy at the time. I thought it was the best sourceport and nothing would ever be better.

Then I loaded a map with a voodoo doll :)


Then ReMooD is for you! (Legacy + Voodoo Dolls)
Old Post 07-07-09 00:51 #
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Super Jamie
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GhostlyDeath said:
Then ReMooD is for you! (Legacy + Voodoo Dolls)

I have used it in the past, and whilst it has some cool features I'm not much of a fan of the menus and have no use for a Legacy port these days anyway. Pretty much everything released is for either Vanilla, Boom or ZDoom.
Old Post 07-07-09 01:52 #
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printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT


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GhostlyDeath said:
What are you going to name it?
I may see, if I get a reason to release it. I'm not going to work on it everytime; it will be something of spare-time like playing the game or making wads :)
Old Post 07-07-09 14:20 #
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