Things that bother you about Doom

[Spectre01]

Da Werecat said:

This one is supposed to fix the aforementioned problem, but I haven't tried it myself.

Awesome, exactly what I was looking for!

[uhbooh]

The lack of unique pain sounds and other sfx shared between monsters. Anyone know a good monster sounds mod?

This always bugged me. That one growling sound (DSDMACT) is used 9 times!

[VGamingJunkie]

You should see the SNES version, presumably due to limited cartridge space. They used the Spider Mastermind's own alert sound for its death sound which is kind of weird, among other things like making the BFG Ball the Baron of Hell Ball.

[Koko Ricky]

So even with making the enemies one-sided, they still had to scratch some of the sprites?

[VGamingJunkie]

Pretty much, not to mention no floor/ceiling textures except for skies. That's not the only thing they had to recycle, either.

[drygnfyre]

Here's a really odd one...

In that room near the end of Deimos Lab, with the central tower that has a few branching corridors, there is one room there that is completely empty. No enemies, no weapons, and when you enter it, the floor rises. But you're not trapped, you can just walk out and walk back in. This has always bothered me. It's probably the only room in the entire game like that, and I always wondered if something was supposed to be in there but they forgot.

For what it's worth, there is a similar room on the other side of that central tower, but it has an imp.

[bimlanders]

I love being nit picky about things I absolutely love, because Doom can stand up to any amount of scrutiny and remain supreme!

The ICON OF SIN sucks, so that's number one.

No proper episode separation in Doom 2, and no real end episode bosses.

The Spidermastermind and Cyberdemon would seem more special of there was only one of each

Not every level has its own unique music. Back when I played the shareware a billion times before upgrading, I would after a while associate each music track with its corresponding level, since they were all different for ep.1.

The Lost Souls don't leave any remains after being killed. I like to admire my kills long afterwards. If I kill ten Lost Souls, I want to see the floor littered with skull fragments!

The end of episode one was such a shock when I saw the two barons appear for the first time. I shit my pants out of fear. But they are overused later on to make their appearance more mundane in retrospect.

When you get right down to it, there are too few enemies in the original Doom.

In Doom 2, there is the right mix and amount of baddies, but (some)wad-makers overuse the damn Revenants in hordes, and in open areas. Fuck you guys. ;)

Only one new weapon in Doom 2? It's a great weapon, though.

Episode 4 in the Ultimate Doom was so half assed. It's pretty good, but does not offer anything fresh to the original game. No new items, weapons, or bad guys - just a new sky (which looks cool, I have to admit).

That's enough for now.

[dsm]

bimlanders said:

When you get right down to it, there are too few enemies in the original Doom.

This is true when you look at it with modern gamer eyes, but back in the day and coming off of Wolfenstein 3-D (which had even fewer enemy types), the amount of different enemies in the full game and orthogonal enemy designs (each enemy having very specific functions, kinda like a chess piece), was most impressive.

Just pointing it out - your point still stands.

[Deleted_Account]

It bothers me that the zombiemen have green hair. Do they think they're hip and cool or something?

[shotfan]

They got dipped in the toxic vats by the demons. The demons expected them to grow all big, muscular and green from the FEV inside, but they were mistaken. Instead, they got brainless weaklings that forgot how to burst fire. But at least Former Troopers are green-haired now!

[Programme]

Piper Maru said:

It bothers me that the zombiemen have green hair. Do they think they're hip and cool or something?

What bothers me more is that in Doom 2, there aren't any civilian zombies in the city levels. Green hair seemed like more of a palette problem.

[VGamingJunkie]

Here's a thought, why are they called Former Humans and not Former Marines? Former Humans implies civilian because it contrasts with Sargent and Commando.

[scifista42]

VonHootie02 said:

Green hair seemed like more of a palette problem.

I think zombies being green-haired was deliberate design. I also can't think of a normal hair color that is closer to green than to grey or black or brown or yellow or other colors in the Doom palette.

MetroidJunkie said:

Here's a thought, why are they called Former Humans and not Former Marines?

Because... they were not marines? They might actually be civilians who never carried guns before being zombified.

[drygnfyre]

bimlanders said:

The Spidermastermind and Cyberdemon would seem more special of there was only one of each

I agree with this, but also like that they make periodic appearances after their debut. I was thinking as a compromise would be to have the cyber-demon on E2M8 and the spider-demon on E3M8 have special properties that only exist there. For example, they have 50% more HP, or they attack faster, etc. (Similar to how MAP07 on Doom 2 has a special flag for the Mancubus).

[Guest Unregistered account]

scifista42 said:

I think zombies being green-haired was deliberate design. I also can't think of a normal hair color that is closer to green than to grey or black or brown or yellow or other colors in the Doom palette.
Because... they were not marines? They might actually be civilians who never carried guns before being zombified.

The Doom (1) manual describes them as being your buddies previously, and as they have some form of uniform and armour with a rifle, I'm pretty sure they're meant to be marines.

[drygnfyre]

bimlanders said:

The ICON OF SIN sucks, so that's number one.

Also agree with this, and you having to use the rocket launcher (although this was more due to the wall design), seemed a bit out of place, as all other enemies can be killed with anything. I really like that "real Icon of Sin" WAD that has been integrated into some others. The boss still won't move, but at least it's got a huge body and attacks with fireballs (in addition to spawn cubes).

bimlanders said:

No proper episode separation in Doom 2, and no real end episode bosses.

Again, I agree. As I've stated in another topic, Doom 2 could have retained the linear progression format, but still offered proper intermission screens in between (i.e. you would simply move from E5MX to E6M1 while keeping all your weapons). With bosses, though, while this wasn't done properly, you can see traces of it. For example, the end of MAP11 throws an Arch-Vile at you, before moving on to MAP12 and the city levels. It's a pseudo-boss, I think.

bimlanders said:

The end of episode one was such a shock when I saw the two barons appear for the first time. I shit my pants out of fear. But they are overused later on to make their appearance more mundane in retrospect.

I have a mixed opinion on this. This is the main reason hell knights were added to Doom 2. But I don't mind the barons being used in E2-4, actually. In the first game, once you fought a boss once, it was "downgraded" to regular enemy afterward. And, at least in Episode 2, I didn't feel like barons were overused. I think the main issue with Doom was that there was a huge jump in HP between, say, the cacodemon, and the barons.

bimlanders said:

Episode 4 in the Ultimate Doom was so half assed. It's pretty good, but does not offer anything fresh to the original game. No new items, weapons, or bad guys - just a new sky (which looks cool, I have to admit).

Again, agree. I liked Episode 4 in terms of design but I really wish they gave it a proper intermission screen. I've stated in another topic that was one of my favorite elements of the episode-based format, how you'd see the facilities, and they'd be interactive (blood rivers in E3, the tower being built in E2). Would have been cool to see a Hellish-like location for the E4 maps.

[Deleted_Account]

It bothers me that the Revenant only fires one rocket, even though it's firing animation shows both launchers firing.

[scifista42]

^ Maybe he fires 2 rockets that merge into one fireball very soon after being launched...

[Arctangent]

dsm said:

orthogonal enemy designs (each enemy having very specific functions, kinda like a chess piece)

Right, you had imps, which fired projectiles and hit you if you were up close, Barons, which fired projectiles and hit you if you were up close, zombiemen, which fired at you at a range but had more damage potential up close and mostly just acted as ammo pick ups, shotgun guys, which fired at you at a range but had more damage potential up close and mostly just acted as ammo pick ups, demons, which were supposed to be melee threats but the game's engine makes them more like walking walls, and spectres, which were supposed to be melee threats but the game's engine makes them more like walking walls.

( really I could've tossed cacos in there as well, because most Doom 1 levels did not exactly use them in areas with enough height to really make them meaningfully different from Bigger Tougher Imps )

[drygnfyre]

Arctangent said:

( really I could've tossed cacos in there as well, because most Doom 1 levels did not exactly use them in areas with enough height to really make them meaningfully different from Bigger Tougher Imps )

This is one of the things Doom 2 and Final Doom did better, having more outdoor maps with plenty of height to have cacodemons ambush you from up high. I think it was MAP31 of TNT, you lower a wall towards the end of the map and a bunch of cacodemons appear that were hiding up high.

[VGamingJunkie]

scifista42 said:

Because... they were not marines? They might actually be civilians who never carried guns before being zombified.

But then why are they wearing what appears to be military styled armor?





Also, this:

Kapanyo said:

The Doom (1) manual describes them as being your buddies previously, and as they have some form of uniform and armour with a rifle, I'm pretty sure they're meant to be marines.

[Programme]

Sometimes I try to make sense of some of the odder parts of Doom by making it a part of its story. Things that are hand waved, usually followed by "its just a game" can be pretty interesting when looking at them differently.

Here are a few examples of what I'm talking about:

-Why are there zombies and ammo in Hell?: Maybe some of the troops on Deimos flew off their little island to see where they were (I posted this idea before in this thread)

-Why does E3M3 use techbase textures when it's in Hell?: Following up on the previous one, maybe it was one of the ships the Deimos troops used that was corrupted after it landed.

-How can Doomguy carry so much ammo?: The backpack uses rudimentary portal technology that stores all of Doomguy's ammo in a secure building.

-Why does Doomguy get stuck on guard duty even though he's obviously the best soldier on his team?: He beat up his CO on Earth, so his reputation was barely good enough for the Phobos mission.

-Why does Doomguy not have an assault rifle?: Some guy on his team took his assault rifle to get some Akimbo ActionTM. Ironically this marine was ripped in half by a Baron of Hell.

[roadworx]

sorry if someone's already said this, but why do the former humans have grey armor instead of green armor? they're supposed to be marines, right?

[drygnfyre]

roadworx said:

sorry if someone's already said this, but why do the former humans have grey armor instead of green armor? they're supposed to be marines, right?

They're former humans, not necessarily former marines. They could be from a different branch of the armed services. This explains their different armor and lack of helmet.

Some mods actually do create true evil marines who look exactly like the player, right down to the green armor.

[shotfan]

I have not seen evil Marines in green armour, but it in steel blue/grey one instead. They appear in Scythe 2, first in "Mr. X" level.

[BigDickBzzrak]

VonHootie02 said:

-How can Doomguy carry so much ammo?: The backpack uses rudimentary portal technology that stores all of Doomguy's ammo in a secure building.

Have you ever thought why does the backpack pickup double max ammo?
The Doomguy already has one backpack.

But, how can you carry 50 rockets in one backpack?
Let's not forget that it's the mid-22nd century, I'm sure they have some super-fancy technology for that.

[VGamingJunkie]

Probably the same wormhole that Link conveniently has in the pocket of his tunic that he keeps pulling things in and out of. Or maybe that's why the Capsule Corporation is so wealthy, video game protagonists keep buying their capsules to store their items in.

[scifista42]

MetroidJunkie said:

Probably the same wormhole that Link conveniently has in the pocket of his tunic that he keeps pulling things in and out of.

It's called hammerspace.

[BeenJammin]

Not one damned thing. You're all Knee-Deep In Hell!

[drygnfyre]

Having replayed E1 again recently, I do think I would have liked to see some sort of flag for boss enemies. Like the barons in E1M8, I think it would have been beat if they had 50% more HP than usual, or attacked faster, etc. They wouldn't necessarily look any different, but they would be fought differently.

I keep going back and forth on this. I like that bosses are reused in later episodes periodically, but I think as a result, there should have always been something special about the initial encounter. I dunno.