MAYhem: 2020 Edition - On Idgames!

[Obsidian]

@Bauul I was pondering that question myself, actually. I'll put it to the mappers: would you guys be fine with death exits on certain levels? I was considering having them on MAP11 and MAP20 to mark off the ends of episodes (if indeed we have enough to require the MAP20 one), but I understand that some people's opinions of them can be much more negative and it would be remiss of me to implement them without permission.

[Marcaek]

I'd advise against it, this being a loose assortment of solo levels and not a project based on continuity.

 

[dmdr]

or death exits on every level for that 'as tested by the mapper' feeling (although it would be unfair to have those count toward the sector limit)

[Phobus]

I'm of the opinion that a lot of players choose to pistol start anyway, so there's no need to force people who prefer to play continuous to lose out. Plus, a good map holds up as fun regardless of whether or not you're playing with the intended resources, and there's a lot of players using game play modifications that we can't account for anyway. "Intended experience" is kind of lost as soon as you release the WAD, IMO.

[Impie]

On 4/30/2020 at 6:01 AM, Obsidian said:

• Impie - Mild Terror at the Vacation Station

@Obsidian It's a minor thing, but the title has no "the" in it. keeps it shorter and sweeter.

 

I did a few more minor fixes to both versions. Changed a few mancs to hell knights in an effort to make it a bit more forgiving, and there were a few linedefs that should have been sound blocking, but weren't.

[Obsidian]

@blinds1ght - Toxic Waltz

 

It's a cute little setpiece that's fun to play and has some tasteful decoration: I like it! While it isn't quite substantial enough for a mapslot of its own, it certainly plays well enough that I'd encourage you to incorporate it into a fully-fledged map. There's still a good 2/3 of a month left if you're game: I'd be keen to see what you do with it. :)

 

As for the death exit discussion: personally I see the benefit of having them to control the continuous player's overall experience to make sure it aligns with what you want it to be, but seeing as the maps here aren't being designed for a specific order or with death exits in mind it makes a bit less sense and isn't guaranteed to make the experience more cohesive. You can argue that it wouldn't take too much away either though, considering everyone's mapping for pistol start by default. :P Continuous play for a lot of community wads often isn't the focus and the player ends up with an ungodly amount of ammo and health by the end of it, so there's that viewpoint to consider.

[Walter confetti]

2 hours ago, Obsidian said:

@Bauul I was pondering that question myself, actually. I'll put it to the mappers: would you guys be fine with death exits on certain levels? I was considering having them on MAP11 and MAP20 to mark off the ends of episodes (if indeed we have enough to require the MAP20 one), but I understand that some people's opinions of them can be much more negative and it would be remiss of me to implement them without permission.

 

For me it's ok.

Also, some day ago I started a map, not sure if I'll scrap it like the other attempts or I'll keep it.

[Dragonfly]

I personally vote for death exits on every map. :)

 

I could easily implement one in my map within my sector count if that's needed, not sure everyone else can say the same, though.

[TheNoob_Gamer]

I personally will implement the "X damage to player and end the map".

Otherwise, if people can't jam death exits into their submissions for some reasons, just leave a note telling users to either use idclev (like how 10sectors did), or if they are playing on newer GZDooms, tell them to use IDCLEVer starter.

[Obsidian]

31 minutes ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

I personally will implement the "X damage to player and end the map".

 

If this decision is due to this conversation then I think you've missed the mark a little: the reason behind death exits is to revert the player to pistol start if they're playing continuously, which the floor special that you're referencing doesn't do. Unless you're looking to implement it as an artistic choice and not as a result of this conversation, I would recommend holding off on putting that in place.

[TheNoob_Gamer]

5 minutes ago, Obsidian said:

If this decision is due to this conversation then I think you've missed the mark a little: the reason behind death exits is to revert the player to pistol start if they're playing continuously, which the floor special that you're referencing doesn't do. Unless you're looking to implement it as an artistic choice and not as a result of this conversation, I would recommend holding off on putting that in place.

If the author of the map following mine doesn't provide the player with health at the start, then I think it's still the same thing, you are still encouraged to play safely.

I might think of implement death exits instead if my method is rejected though; after all whoever play continuously (starting with my map) will be unable to shoot stuff, even after finishing it.

[4MaTC]

Can i participate too?

 

Otsegolectric (10 sectors)

 

 

 

Ports Tested: GZDoom 4.3.3, vanilla; PRBoom+ 2514

IWAD: Doom 2

Map(s): MAP01

Music: Static-x - otsegolectric (midi)

Difficulty Settings: Yes

Multiplayer Placement: Yes

Build Time: about 10 hours (boom format is new to me, and 10 sectors is a really tight restriction)

 

Edit: 1) removed blocking hanging corpses decoration in north-east corridor; 2) monsters no longer block doors.

Spoiler

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by 4MaTC : Upd 1

[Nine Inch Heels]

2 hours ago, Dragonfly said:

death exits on every map. :)

Cool, my map is already cut out for that. :P

[Bauul]

In regards to my map, it probably is too shortsighted to design it around the expectation of a definite pistol start, especially given most people aren't including death exits and there's no guarantee this map would fit after one of the proposed breaks anyway. 

 

Generally speaking though a couple of death exits scattered throughout the mapset is no bad thing if there are specific levels that really benefit from it. But conversely, if every level plays just as well in continuous as pistol-start, it might not be necessary. 

[NaturalTvventy]

7 hours ago, Bauul said:

Quick question: I've realized I'm making a map that strongly benefits from pistol starting (to the extent a continuous, moderately stocked player would be able to undermine the challenge of the map pretty quickly).

 

I realize this is a tall ask, but what's the chance of any of the maps ending in a death exit? 

 

If it's unfeasible that's absolutely fine, I can see if I can work around it, but thought I'd check.

My thought is that all these maps are default set up for pistol start given the community aspect of the project. It’s already the nature of doom that continuous play makes subsequent maps easier. That’s why I like continuous play! I get rewarded for playing through each map, especially since so many maps these days expect the player to scramble to find weapons under heavy fire from enemies. I never liked those kinds of starts.

 

Other players like pistol starting everything and IDCLEV to each map. Personally I’ve never been a fan of death exits as they feel like a screw-you to the player. You beat the map? Well DIE SUCKER!

 

Of courses if you can work out a death exit with a willing fellow mapper no one is going to stop you I’m sure. I really just wanted to use this opportunity to complain about death exits.

 

EDIT: Oh God, are we really talking death exits at the end of every stage?? No No NOOOOOOOOOO!

Edited May 11, 2020 by NaturalTvventy

[Walter confetti]

What i made so far on my map, is 20 sectors. Picture in spoilers:

Spoiler

 

[Guest Unregistered account]

I'm not used to using resource packs and when I try to test in PrBoom-plus it always crashes with the message "I_SignalHander: Exiting on signal: signal 11". Any ideas how to fix it? :/

I just added the pack as a resource.

[Nine Inch Heels]

11 minutes ago, Kapanyo said:

when I try to test in PrBoom-plus it always crashes with the message "I_SignalHander: Exiting on signal: signal 11". Any ideas how to fix it? :/

Directory:\path\to\exe\here\PrBoom-plus.exe -iwad doom2.wad -file your_map_here.wad resource_here.wad  -complevel 9 -skill 1/2/3/4/5 -warp XY

Try that

[Guest Unregistered account]

Okay, turns out I had rudy2v6.deh still in the launch parameters... but thanks for the fast reply xD

[DavidN]

44 minutes ago, Kapanyo said:

I'm not used to using resource packs and when I try to test in PrBoom-plus it always crashes with the message "I_SignalHander: Exiting on signal: signal 11". Any ideas how to fix it? :/

I just added the pack as a resource.

That's the same message I got for RonnieJamesDiner's map (signal 11 indicates a segfault or memory access violation!) I'm not sure what caused it, or what made it go away.

 

Mandatory death exits sound too clunky to me - just let players know they're all intended for pistol starts and let them play the way they want! (If permitted and all the tricks people have used work, I'd love to do a GZDoom adaptation with a hub level, just for the sake of my own practice)

[galileo31dos01]

11 hours ago, Obsidian said:

would you guys be fine with death exits on certain levels?

 

I don't think I have any free space for a death exit sector, unfortunately, but I'll take a look just to be completely sure. It'd be convenient for any following PS-centric map if mine had one though.

[RonnieJamesDiner]

One more update:

 

• Tweaked the final battle; adjusted the lift, added lift lines, removed the final Cyberdemon (it was unnecessary) as well as the BFG (it was only there for the Cyb)
• Fixed the crate misalignment
• Minor adjustment to the zombie population

Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/b8vomrwia6v0yub/urbanwar_v1.2.zip?dl=1

 

Regarding the death exit discussion, I'm happy with whatever decision is reached here. My map is certainly setup for a pistol start by virtue of creating it/testing it in the first place, but I don't think a continuous playthrough would ruin it, either. I'm open to adding a death exit on my map if it's necessary or desired -- I think I could get away with a simple teleport setup, into a room (which could easily be merged with something else), leading to a Romero head + barrels setup, or something.

[NaturalTvventy]

1 hour ago, galileo31dos01 said:

 

I don't think I have any free space for a death exit sector, unfortunately, but I'll take a look just to be completely sure. It'd be convenient for any following PS-centric map if mine had one though.

You don’t need a free sector for a death exit. Just teleport the player to one of your existing sectors on top of barrels or player start plus a Romero head. I suggest a section unconnected to the rest of your map. There’s even the teleport to other line with same tag Boom special, which requires no tagged sectors. I’m just not sure if that telefrags. 
 

I’m still opposed to death exits of course. Let the player make the choice to pistol start or not. I don’t see why you would rob the player of that choice.

Edited May 11, 2020 by NaturalTvventy

[Obsidian]

7 hours ago, NaturalTvventy said:

EDIT: Oh God, are we really talking death exits at the end of every stage?? No No NOOOOOOOOOO!

 

Oh goodness me, no! I don't want to completely torpedo the experience of continuous players, heh. If death exits do get implemented, they'll only be present to close out the various episodes of Doom II (MAP11, MAP20, maybe MAP06).

 

On that note, I'd recommend that people hold off on implementing death exits until the map order is finalized.

[dac]

On one hand, current map is progressing well. I can't believe how fast this is going, is this the power of sector limits?

Spoiler

 

On the other hand, that's all GZDoom screens. I'm having a miserable time getting the sky texture to work properly in either prBoom or Doom Retro, the latter giving me a ton of texture errors (either wrong textures or outright not loading) and the former not loading the sky, or giving me an error like "R_TextureNumForName: SKY3 not found". I know I'm still new at this and adding textures is a relatively new concept, so I'm asking for help, both to make the release and to know how when I make future maps.

[Obsidian]

@dac By the sounds of things you're not all that familiar with TEXTUREx and PNAMES editing. For now I'd recommend copying and pasting those lumps from the recent resource into your wad in SLADE, right-clicking the sky you want to add, selecting "Add to TEXTUREx" and then using Boom sky transfers to implement it. Hopefully that isn't too difficult to follow.

[dac]

@Obsidian True, that's the first time I do some serious texture work. Your instructions aren't too hard to follow, if I have any more troubles I'll let you know. Thanks for the help!

 

e: Yep, everything's fine now.

Edited May 12, 2020 by dac

[DavidN]

@4MaTC - Really well-made if tough and slightly confusing map! Oddly it starts off hectic and then gets easier (with a brief spike in the middle), but you do a good job making sure the player never feels safe with the Cyberdemons around, and they have to really conserve health - I made it through with a lot of perseverance. It's not very clear what the yellow switch does, especially as you have to travel back along somewhere you've been before to find the route it's opened up - but I love how you make the player weave in and out of the line of sight of the rocket-spewing behemoths.

 

The hanging corpses in the northeast corner of the castle are barely visible by looking at them from the right angle and they block the player, making a confusing hangup in an apparently open space. The economizing with doors is clever, but I was able to get into the yellow skull door before I was meant to as it was attempting to close but couldn't - perhaps a monster stuck under a different door somewhere at the other end of the map?

 

@blinds1ght Welcome and congratulations on your first map :) I sort of have the same opinion as Obsidian does, but in a different way - I think the setpiece itself is OK on its own as a small boss level, but that nothing at all happens at the start of the level and that it could easily be cut out to give you a bit more room to make the centrepiece more interesting. Imagine being able to see the boss encounter as you make your way slowly up to it :)

[4MaTC]

2 hours ago, DavidN said:

@4MaTC - Really well-made if tough and slightly confusing map! Oddly it starts off hectic and then gets easier (with a brief spike in the middle), but you do a good job making sure the player never feels safe with the Cyberdemons around, and they have to really conserve health - I made it through with a lot of perseverance. It's not very clear what the yellow switch does, especially as you have to travel back along somewhere you've been before to find the route it's opened up - but I love how you make the player weave in and out of the line of sight of the rocket-spewing behemoths.

 

The hanging corpses in the northeast corner of the castle are barely visible by looking at them from the right angle and they block the player, making a confusing hangup in an apparently open space. The economizing with doors is clever, but I was able to get into the yellow skull door before I was meant to as it was attempting to close but couldn't - perhaps a monster stuck under a different door somewhere at the other end of the map?

Thanks!

Blocking hanging corpses is a surprise for me, i guess gzdoom fixing infinite height of decorations, thats why i never stumbled on them.

And this door problem...you're absolutely right - dumb monsters. Already fixing it

[DavidN]

I usually work with GZDoom as well and have definitely been surprised a few times at how some often subtle things behave differently!