When did Old School FPS fans turn around on Halo?

[Biodegradable]

2 hours ago, Dreamskull said:

Halo is a weak ripoff version of Doom and I'm sick of pretending its not.

 

Elaborate, I'm curious.

[Dr. Zin]

If anything (and that's a big if) the closer comparison is between Halo and Quake 2.

[Edward850]

19 minutes ago, Biodegradable said:

Elaborate, I'm curious.

Well you see in Halo you point at enemies with guns and shoot from a first-person perspective, when we all know that Doom invented pointing guns in first-person first and thus is the only game allowed to do that.

[mrthejoshmon]

People who compare Halo to Doom are great, they make it incredibly clear they haven't played Halo or possibly even never played Doom.

 

They're not even close, we're talking basic children's comprehension levels of not close, I would really like to know exactly which version of Doom you are playing because it sure as shit ain't the one I got.

[heliumlamb]

corridor 7 is a weak ripoff of Stern Electronics' Berzerk

[Edward850]

Noodle's video on Halo is good to watch if you haven't played Halo:

 

And if you've come into this thread to say "I've played the first level of Halo:CE and found it boring", I strongly urge you to actually play further, such as you @Rudolph. There is far more going on than just the first level and it just keeps going. And while Halo 1 itself certinanly didn't age perfectly given just how weirdly the game was pieced together, Halo2 is probably the game you need to reach to form an opinion worth discussing as that has the far more evolved plot and sandbox.

Hell I'd argue Halo2's story is thoroughly unique in a sea of shooters.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Edward850

[Herr Dethnout]

On 11/24/2022 at 12:50 PM, Scrabbs said:

Simple, people who were kids when they first played Halo are now old enough to post. I wonder how long until people start defending pubg and Fortnite? I’m guessing 4-6 years, maybe less. I mean it’s weird to think Halo CE is as retro as Pac-Man was in 2001

You now, It feels so weird to me calling Counter-Strike or GTA San Andreas retro like we are talking about Super Mario or Pac-Man. :I

[Kinsie]

31 minutes ago, Herr Dethnout said:

You now, It feels so weird to me calling Counter-Strike or GTA San Andreas retro like we are talking about Super Mario or Pac-Man. :I

The Xbox 360 was released 17 years ago.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

Depends on how you look at things. I don't consider movies that were released 17 years ago to be retro, or even movies from the 80's. Sure, film has a much longer history than video games, but I can't really think of anything that was released only 17 years ago to be "retro". Even looking at things in perspective, I'd maybe consider the PSX/N64 era to be the "retro starting point". It's all subjective though. But I don't really think that most people in 2022 view Halo as being retro like people in 2001 looking back on Pac-Man. It's more complicated than simple math. Halo is still relatively similar to modern games in 2022. Pac-Man was nothing like the games coming out in 2001. 

[MS-06FZ Zaku II Kai]

1 hour ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Depends on how you look at things. I don't consider movies that were released 17 years ago to be retro, or even movies from the 80's. Sure, film has a much longer history than video games, but I can't really think of anything that was released only 17 years ago to be "retro". Even looking at things in perspective, I'd maybe consider the PSX/N64 era to be the "retro starting point". It's all subjective though. But I don't really think that most people in 2022 view Halo as being retro like people in 2001 looking back on Pac-Man. It's more complicated than simple math. Halo is still relatively similar to modern games in 2022. Pac-Man was nothing like the games coming out in 2001. 

Right on point it's more like different eras or lineages then simple math.

I see HALO as one of the last succesor to classic arena shooters (not counting the plethora of Indie titles obviously).

It is heavily modernized of course, taking huge narative inspiration from other titles that come before but in gameplay terms it is realy similiar in some ways to the likes of doom amd quake just with a lot of added features and some tweaks to fit better on consoles.

[Kinsie]

1 hour ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Pac-Man was nothing like the games coming out in 2001. 

Halo is as old now as Pac-Man was when Halo came out.

[Rudolph]

6 hours ago, Edward850 said:

And if you've come into this thread to say "I've played the first level of Halo:CE and found it boring", I strongly urge you to actually play further, such as you @Rudolph. There is far more going on than just the first level and it just keeps going. And while Halo 1 itself certinanly didn't age perfectly given just how weirdly the game was pieced together, Halo2 is probably the game you need to reach to form an opinion worth discussing as that has the far more evolved plot and sandbox.

Hell I'd argue Halo2's story is thoroughly unique in a sea of shooters.

I specifically stated in my comment that I did play through the whole goddamn thing back in the days and the reasons why I did not push through further with the MCC were because the opening level is still the same boring slog and the free weekend was pretty much over anyway... -_-

 

The exterior areas are much better in terms of gameplay, sure, and again I remember having fun with the Silent Cartographer demo, but I do not feel like paying full price for a supposedly improved edition that does not even attempt to alleviate some of the original game's egregious flaws.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Rudolph

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

43 minutes ago, Kinsie said:

Halo is as old now as Pac-Man was when Halo came out.

That's exactly my point- imagine you're back in 2001, playing Halo while looking back at Pac-Man. There was a massive jump in technology there, not to mention the massive development of gaming culture in general. Pac-Man pretty much felt as old and retro back then as it does now - I can remember this myself.

 

Now, in 2022, look back at Halo while playing whatever game just came out last week. There hasn't been that massive of a jump compared to 1981-2001. Halo doesn't feel nearly as old now as Pac-Man did when Halo was released. In the year 2090, I don't think games from 2070 are going to be considered retro. Again, it's all subjective, and also depends on how old you are as well, but to me it feels silly to call a game like Halo "retro". For me, it requires more than just the passing of time for something to gain a retro quality.

 

(Hopefully you get what I'm saying because that was an absolute bitch to put into words for some reason lol)

[Kinsie]

2 minutes ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Again, it's all subjective, and also depends on how old you are as well, but to me it feels silly to call a game like Halo "retro". For me, it requires more than just the passing of time for something to gain a retro quality.

If a platform is two generations ago and no longer regularly receiving officially-licensed titles, it's retro. As such, the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 are now officially retro platforms.

I'm sorry that this is how you had to learn that you're old as dust and you'll probably be a skeleton before long, but that's how it goes.

[Rudolph]

5 minutes ago, Kinsie said:

If a platform is two generations ago and no longer regularly receiving officially-licensed titles, it's retro. As such, the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 are now officially retro platforms.

Yeah, Le Joueur du grenier (the French counterpart to the Angry Video Game Nerd) made that joke too when reviewing Sonic The Hedgehog 2006.

 

Tempus fugit, as they used to say. Latin speakers, that is, not Le Joueur du grenier! XD

[Kinsie]

yeah, tempest fuckit was my favorite atari jaguar game too

[Aaron Blain]

I'm actually the inverse of the thread's subject -- I played the heck out of Halo 1&2 when they came out. I assumed I was happily moving forward with the cutting edge of gaming. But for the past several years Doom is the first and sometimes only game I install on every device. I still stand by the first two Halos but they don't draw me much anymore.

[Azuris]

41 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Yeah, Le Joueur du grenier (the French counterpart to the Angry Video Game Nerd) made that joke too when reviewing Sonic The Hedgehog 2006.

 

Tempus fugit, as they used to say. Latin speakers, that is, not Le Joueur du grenier! XD

 

Ludando semper fugerit rapidissimo!

 

(while playing it (time) will flee ever very fast!)

(don't judge my vulgar latin ;) i am backporting it from the neo latin languages i speak, spanish and italian:

jugando siempre huyera rapidisimo

giocando sempre fuggira rapidissimo)

(ah, i am bored at work...)

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

1 hour ago, Kinsie said:

If a platform is two generations ago and no longer regularly receiving officially-licensed titles, it's retro. As such, the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 are now officially retro platforms.

I'm sorry that this is how you had to learn that you're old as dust and you'll probably be a skeleton before long, but that's how it goes.

Fuck yeah, I'm about to officially retro out with the officially-retro-certified FIFA 19 (release date: 2018) on my officially-retro-certified PS3. I can't believe that game is already four years old, the nostalgia brings tears to my eyes. I hope I'll be able to gib David Beckham before they spread my ashes across the river when I reach the ripe age of 32.   

[Mr. Freeze]

There's no time limit on what makes something "retro", it's an evolving state of things. I really hope we don't categorize gaming into "Retro, Modern and Contemporary" going forward. 

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

24 minutes ago, Mr. Freeze said:

There's no time limit on what makes something "retro", it's an evolving state of things. I really hope we don't categorize gaming into "Retro, Modern and Contemporary" going forward. 

That's the problem, it's already happening and apparently there are official retro things now. It's not a subjective thing anymore, it's a homegrown marketing gimmick to take advantage of zoomers who long for the days when they were known as bigtitty69420 on Xbox Live all the way back in 2014. Everything must be neatly categorized for the purpose of marketing and everything is completely objective.  

Edited November 28, 2022 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[MemeMind]

I like Halo

[Rudolph]

1 hour ago, Kinsie said:

yeah, tempest fuckit was my favorite atari jaguar game too

I have not played Tempest 2000, but its soundtrack kicks ass! I remember adding it to the custom playlist while playing Descent! :D

 

This reminds me of another Joueur du grenier joke when discussing an unrelated game studio by the name of Tempest:

 

Tempest qui n'a produit que des jeux qui puent. ("Tempest, which only made games that stink.")

 

^{It is funny because in French, t'empeste is a homonym of Tempest and means "you reek".}

[Mr Masker]

Halo stinks,

 

we all know Haze killed the Halo franchise back in 2008.

Spoiler

 

[Cacowad]

Had a blast reading this topic.

I recently replayed all halo 1 to reach with my (now) ex, they are decent games with some occasional not so decent mechanics. As someone else said, the level design is usually corridor -> mini arena -> corridor -> backtrack to start, wich can get stale after a while.

 

I'm currently 30 this year, and thus ashes upon a river, and i remember both sides when halo came out: on one side holy moly the visual tech was quake on steroid, and the IA was great, actually see the monsters panic and dodge missiles and granates was great. The rechargeable shield makes sense in game, as both elites and you share the same mechanic.

On the other hand, i don't particularly like the shield, and i don't really like that it goes down in a single hit most of the times, forcing the player in a costant state of be perfectly always aware of every enemy (the radar supposedly help, but i was never able to use it) and also take cover every half second of gameplay. Also the limited inventory, fuck that, i want my rocket launcher AND my pew pew guns AND my boomstick thank you very much, constantly recicling weapons from the ground was not a particularly good time.

Last but not least, it is a bit slower than necessary, it serve it's purpose, as you actually need to kill stuff to progress (speedrunners excepted), but as a avid quake 3\live player before and warframe after, i do appreciate when there is a little bit of speed involved with my shooting.

Uh, i remembered that i need to try ultrakill, it seems pretty fun, that'll go after wolfenstain i suppose.

[LexiMax]

Just an aside, but it pleases me that so many gamers these days either like Halo, or don't care for it without getting defensive or invaliding other people's opinions - a marked from discourse from even a decade ago.

 

There's always a few exceptions, as this thread has shown, but by and large Doom and Halo peacefully coexisting in the pantheon of great FPS franchises is great to see.

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by AlexMax

[Noiser]

6 hours ago, Kinsie said:

Halo is as old now as Pac-Man was when Halo came out.

Well, I'm not sure you got what he's trying to say here. You can group together games from the 80's and 90's. It's the arcade era. Quick, plug and play and detached from realism. From 00's onwards games start to be more alligned with modern sensibilities. More focus on narrative and a closer bound to cinema language. For me games like Halo, Doom 3 or Half Life 2 are much closer to games released now than Pac-Man or Super Mario.

As it's already said, it's a bit more complex than counting the years imo, I don't think there's a simple formula to categorize art.
 

Spoiler

And yes, I'm a pretty old man. No problem here at all lol

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Noiser

[Jacek Bourne]

Both Halo and Doom are Excellent. Anyone who says otherwise has the right to hold that opinion.

[Rudolph]

10 minutes ago, Jacek Bourne said:

Both Halo and Doom are Excellent. Anyone who says otherwise has the right to hold that opinion.

I do not think Halo has aged as gracefully as Doom in terms of level design, but given how tumultuous the former's development has reportedly been, it is nothing short of a miracle that it managed to not only become one of the Xbox's killer apps but a multimedia juggernaut of a franchise overall.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

I always liked Halo (haven't played Reach or anything after that, though). Even regardless of its level design issues in the original, it always just felt like a series that had its heart in the right place. I can tell that the people who made it enjoyed making it, it actually had a soul compared to its competition like Killzone, Haze, etc. I liked Resistance though. Even Killzone was alright. But I think Halo is different than those in a special way.