Heretic: Treasure Chest - PLEASE FILL IN SLOTS!

[Dreadopp]

Aabra said:

I totally would, except that for me these types of projects are a bit difficult. I simply can't resist the temptation of using Hexen format and ACS... putting flats on walls/etc. I like using the advanced features when I map so maybe for another similar project.

To be honest, I prefer to use advanced features as well. However, I thought that this project was a nice break from all that, so I decided to join up. It turned out to be quite enjoyable.

Aabra said:

A Heretic Invasion wad would be fun I think.

I thought there was already an heretic Invasion wad in development on the Skulltag forums, or was that something else?

I have an update on my second map. It's about 85-90% complete at the moment. I just need to place some more details on the outer ring that I was working on. There are no screenshots this time because I did not want to spoil it for you guys ;). Also, the map is sort of small, if that all right. I thought because it was a boss map, it did not need to be all that big.

[Remiel]

Dreadopp said:

@Remiel: Your map looks pretty cool to me. ... The architecture is pretty good as well. Good job :).

yeah, okay

i already want no more of that, please

you know, ever

Anyway, I was planning to post yesterday, plus two days ago I said that tomorrow would be when I would probably be able to make the effort to finish the under-construction room anyway, but unfortunately I could do neither since I came to be busy spending all of yesterday in a drawer. But, today, when the map went out for a while, probably to do something delinquent like stay at Hybrid Awakening's house, I managed to push the drawer out a little by throwing my weight against it repeatedly so that I wouldn't run out of air in the enclosed space while I bit through my restraints and knocked the drawer loose to get up and call the police.

But, everything's alright now, the map is currently undergoing rehabilitation, and it seems to be working. Plus, I've been visiting regularly to smooth things over, and hopefully if the time gets right, make for some good insertion. Like, of areas into the map. Don't give me that look, I hadn't finished yet. Anyway;

CURRENT PROGRESS RYeah, okay, you know what? I'm tired of this bit here, so we'll see it off forever now. Bye bye!
Anyway, screenshots!

Screenshot 1: (Reprise of the teleportal altar/pool of blood on which the player starts. It's an improvement from the last screenshot because ESSLMR* is used less. It's a good texture, but that means especially that I must use it more responsibly.)
Screenshot 2: (I added light sources at Lord_Z's suggestion. You can't see it because I have things turned off so that I can adjust the map in 3D Mode without obstruction, but the light sources are there. There'll be some actual lighting soon, too. Things will stay turned off in screenshots for the sake of hiding the difficulty; there's reason to this, but it's a followup quite a ways away in time, so bear with me.)
Screenshot 3: (Another general view of the room, yet again. You can see I made some more important texture changes, because ORNSUPG is a 16px step texture, and I realized it didn't look great when used for the central foundations of the four corner pillars, which were taller than 16px. On an unrelated note, I made sure to carve out space for lighting on both sides. You might be able to tell, because one of those spaces is where I'm floating in the first place, and trying to get this far back when it was still a flat wall would have left me standing outside the map.)
Screenshot 4: (Back in the long second room, where you can tell I've done some work since the last report. The stained glass will have proper lighting once the room is finished, so I don't have to worry about deciding to add additional detail that ends up conflicting with the lighting sectors for whatever reason.)
Screenshot 5: (General view of the room. I'll do something with the far end by tomorrow, and the east side of the room will have a way out, leading to the eventual next room as as well.)
There was a sixth screenshot, but I forgot to tinypic it. Oh well, I'll be damned if I can be bothered to do it now.

Not a very good post today. I didn't actually do much work today, so to make up for it, tomorrow will be extra cool. After all, I've only got one more day!! to finish this thing before--... ...zzzzzzz

[Dreadopp]

Remiel said:

yeah, okay

i already want no more of that, please

you know, ever

What? Am I not allowed to like your map?

Remiel said:

Anyway, I was planning to post yesterday, plus two days ago I said that tomorrow would be when I would probably be able to make the effort to finish the under-construction room anyway, but unfortunately I could do neither since I came to be busy spending all of yesterday in a drawer. But, today, when the map went out for a while, probably to do something delinquent like stay at Hybrid Awakening's house, I managed to push the drawer out a little by throwing my weight against it repeatedly so that I wouldn't run out of air in the enclosed space while I bit through my restraints and knocked the drawer loose to get up and call the police.

What?

[kristus]

Reimel: Drugs are bad, mmmkay?

[Tango]

kristus said:

Reimel: Drugs are bad, mmmkay?

No but you see he was stuck in a drawer all day and his map ran away so drugs were the only solution

[duvel]

May I suggest less coffee? I find juice a much better alternative.

Also the architecture looks great but why is the entire map all two colors with the same (dark) lighting?

[Creaphis]

Aabra said:

I totally would, except that for me these types of projects are a bit difficult. I simply can't resist the temptation of using Hexen format and ACS... putting flats on walls/etc. I like using the advanced features when I map so maybe for another similar project. A Heretic Invasion wad would be fun I think.

I understand. However, what I can't resist doing instead of ACS coding is voodoo doll coding - which is actually possible in vanilla Heretic with wind sector effects. Also, most flats are also walls in this resource wad and vice versa, and they could be made so when they aren't already.

ler said:

Also the architecture looks great but why is the entire map all two colors with the same (dark) lighting?

Those screenies are of two rooms, pre-lighting.

Now, to my own business: Can I put a maulotaur in e2m4? Considering that three are fought in the original e2m8 it seems fair to let one be revealed earlier. If everyone says "no" I probably will anyway.

[40oz]

Dreadopp said:

I thought there was already an heretic Invasion wad in development on the Skulltag forums, or was that something else?

In the trailer video of 97B (i think it's called?), they made a lot of emphasis of Heretic support, and in the video there was a short sneak peek of some Heretic invasion. It displayed what wads were being shown at the end of the video, the wad being called "HTCINV.wad", and upon searching for it, it appeared to be nowhere in existence.

Many many months ago someone showed off some screenshots of a Heretic invasion, it was never released and I doubt it is still in production.

[duvel]

I'd leave it to one on Skill 4, no more.

[Creaphis]

That's the plan.

Now, I'm not going to break continuity as seriously as having the player fight D'sparil early, but I have already figured out a method by which it would appear that D'sparil escapes before the player can kill him - and his escape can be used to trigger events in a tag 666-like way, even though he never dies. This would be interesting in a slot like e3m7.

[Lord_Z]

I have a version of the Heretic Invasion but it is only 2 maps at the moment. I believe the one map is the one in the trailer and it is quite good.

[Dreadopp]

JohnnyRancid said:

In the trailer video of 97B (i think it's called?), they made a lot of emphasis of Heretic support, and in the video there was a short sneak peek of some Heretic invasion. It displayed what wads were being shown at the end of the video, the wad being called "HTCINV.wad", and upon searching for it, it appeared to be nowhere in existence.

Many many months ago someone showed off some screenshots of a Heretic invasion, it was never released and I doubt it is still in production.

I think I remember something about the invasion thing in the trailer. That's probably where I saw it then. It still would be cool if one was actually made. Maybe this group of Heretic mappers could make it? ;)

@Creaphis: I don't think you should put a maulator on. I think we should follow the normal Heretic set-up for this kind of monster placement. Just my two cents.

[Creaphis]

Dreadopp said:

@Creaphis: I don't think you should put a maulator on. I think we should follow the normal Heretic set-up for this kind of monster placement. Just my two cents.

Duly noted.

[Gez]

JohnnyRancid said:

In the trailer video of 97B (i think it's called?), they made a lot of emphasis of Heretic support, and in the video there was a short sneak peek of some Heretic invasion. It displayed what wads were being shown at the end of the video, the wad being called "HTCINV.wad", and upon searching for it, it appeared to be nowhere in existence.

Many many months ago someone showed off some screenshots of a Heretic invasion, it was never released and I doubt it is still in production.

I think it was the trailer for 97D, since invasion wasn't supported for other games than Doom before. (Invasion spawners were hardcoded, and only provided for Doom. During development of 97D, they were exported to DECORATE, and after that people contributed spawners for Heretic and Hexen.)

A Heretic invasion wad and a Hexen invasion wad were made by skulltag testers and released internally for testing these game modes in these games; but those were test maps rather than large scale invasion projects like Alpha and Delta Invasion. I made the Hexen one, and I wouldn't release it publically. (For a start, it's based on Seven Portals rather than made from scratch.)

[Creaphis]

You should make an invasion map from scratch based on seven portals. That would be pretty cool.

[Torn]

Wow, it looks like things is going fine around here. I have been kicked out again for real. I haven't really done anything yet on my map, I'm sorry for that. Also I have been working a bit on flashback.
But still, my work is on my ex's computer, but we are in a good mood, so I am sure I can get it. Also I still love her, love beats.

I know people want to use advanced features, but still. I want everybody to be able to play this, heh. However I just use zdoom to play heretic. Does doomsday support HHE?

Edit/note: I have always thought that kaiser's level would work perfect as e3m7, but I could be wrong. Or else it could be part of either episode 4 or 5.

[Creaphis]

Torn said:

I know people want to use advanced features, but still. I want everybody to be able to play this, heh. However I just use zdoom to play heretic. Does doomsday support HHE?

I'd imagine that all people who would play this wad have computers capable of running ZDoom, but yeah, I also want project as free of advanced features as possible. My reasons are:
1 If all ZDoom features are available for use, then there is pressure to use them, and a good vanilla compatible map may look out of place in the wad.
2. Some mappers may get carried away with ZDoom stuff while not ensuring that the mapping essentials are taken care of.
3. After playing in new ports in freelook, etc., I often find it surprisingly fun and refreshing to go back to oldschool play for a while. I would like to be able to play this wad in Heretic+ (and hear the proper music tracks) for a fun vanilla experience.

[Fletcher`]

Think it would be wise to have a maulotaur or two on e5m7? The next to last heretic level. :P

[Dreadopp]

rf` said:

Think it would be wise to have a maulotaur or two on e5m7? The next to last heretic level. :P

It might be ok to do that, but dont but them in crowded places with no way out. That something that jobro did, but shouldn't have.

I still think that we should follow the normal Heretic boss placement, but that is just my opinion.

[Gez]

IIRC, there are several maulotaurs throughout E5. There's one right at the start in E5M1.

(It may depends on difficulty level, though.)

[Creaphis]

Wrong episode. There's one at the start of e4m1. It's a very tough level to max from a pistol start.

There's definitely no problem with including maulotaurs in any level after e2m8, and no problem with including liches after e1m8 - as long as they're used tastefully, and in moderation! (eg. Don't put FOUR MAULOTAURS in a TINY PIT.) I personally think that a single maulotaur and single lich could be revealed earlier than that to surprise the player - and I have a spot in my level where a maulotaur would really add to the gameplay - but if my opinion is the minority opinion I guess I'll have to take it out. Still, when my level is finally in the beta stages I think it will be agreed that the maulotaur improves the map, and having good maps is the core of what we're trying to accomplish here.


EDIT: I just checked, and Kaiser's map (currently slotted as e1m5) has two iron liches on hard and one on medium, so a maulotaur on e2m4 is not unprecedented either.

[Dreadopp]

I take back what I said about the boss placement. I forgot that Heretic put bosses in non boss levels. I think Lord_Z also put some Iron Lichs on his levels as well.

However, make sure that there is enough ammo for the player and please make sure there is enough room. :)

[Creaphis]

Dreadopp said:

However, make sure that there is enough ammo for the player and please make sure there is enough room. :)

Happy to oblige! I promise to have no fights that are hard only because there's no room to maneuver.

[Gez]

Creaphis said:

Wrong episode. There's one at the start of e4m1. It's a very tough level to max from a pistol start.

I checked. In skill 4, one maulotaur at the end of E5M1: Ochre Cliffs (but you can avoid him easily, he's only released if you cross the lava in the end room), and another near the end of E5M3: Quay (this one isn't hidden). There's also plenty Iron Liches in every level.

[Snarboo]

I put a single Iron Lich at the end of my map, which is E1M3. Should I change it or leave it be?

[40oz]

Ordinarily I would say to get rid of the lich, but in this case of being a community chest thing, theres no consistency in difficulty, so just leave it be.

[CodenniumRed]

Yeah and everyone knows what a Lich is by now so might as well.

[Creaphis]

Gez said:

I checked. In skill 4, one maulotaur at the end of E5M1: Ochre Cliffs (but you can avoid him easily, he's only released if you cross the lava in the end room), and another near the end of E5M3: Quay (this one isn't hidden). There's also plenty Iron Liches in every level.

Oh yeah, I totally forgot about that guy. My mistake.

[Aabra]

Gez said:

A Heretic invasion wad and a Hexen invasion wad were made by skulltag testers and released internally for testing these game modes in these games; but those were test maps rather than large scale invasion projects like Alpha and Delta Invasion.

Exactly. The heretic invasion wad is freely available it's just very hard to find but the reality is that it's really only 1 map. (Was there a second one? If there was I've lost it.) It was never made into a full blown wad. The Hexen invasion map was actually a lot of fun too but it really was 100% for testing purposes as it was 90% seven portals. Still though - fun wad. :)

Anyways, for those of you who are interested you can get the Heretic Invasion map here:

http://download.yousendit.com/B70F61E800F06D73

The map is HRINV1

You should really try it out to see the kind of fun that is possible with Heretic these days... especially if you're creating new maps for it. This only runs in Skulltag though of course due to it being an invasion map.

Edit: I forgot to mention that this map was made by Lazureus - he deserves the credit for it.

[Lord_Z]

There is a second map but it is filled with variations of the Heretic main character (Corvus?) and I much prefer the normal monsters. I'm not even sure where I found this wad. Anyway, it would be awesome to get a full 10 levels or something for it.