Things about Doom you just found out

[Lippeth]

45 minutes ago, Maximum Matt said:

Aw hell no.

Aw hell yeah naw

[Foebane72]

One thing I've seen in recent weeks: there are many YouTube videos on my feed showing Marauder kill combos, and for a lot of them, I'm seeing this ridiculous animation of blue circling around the Marauder's head when he's hit, as well as (I think) stars!

 

Who in their right mind thought that the Marauder, a serious foe against the Doom Slayer, needed a cartoon animation trope when it gets injured?

 

[Rampy470]

41 minutes ago, Foebane72 said:

One thing I've seen in recent weeks: there are many YouTube videos on my feed showing Marauder kill combos, and for a lot of them, I'm seeing this ridiculous animation of blue circling around the Marauder's head when he's hit, as well as (I think) stars!

 

Who in their right mind thought that the Marauder, a serious foe against the Doom Slayer, needed a cartoon animation trope when it gets injured?

 

That got added with TAG2 with the hammer.

 

If you'd like there's a mod that can turn it off https://www.nexusmods.com/doometernal/mods/228

[Buckshot]

After all these years I thought the NeXT version of DOOM was the first playable version.  Apparently that is not the case.... While it was developed on NeXTstep on NeXT stations (and the textures and images done in DOS), it was played internally via DOS port. Apparently DOS was always the focus as the game was VGA oriented. It wasn't until after the game shipped and community outcry caused them to retroactively and make a NeXTstep port for DOOM (albeit without the DMX sound engine/library, so no audio in it). So I guess the DOS version was technically the version first playable.

 

Additionally, unlike DOOM, Quake was developed on NeXTStep OS but running on HP PaRisc systems as NeXTstep/OpenStep had been ported to other architectures by then. Always thought Quake was done on next hardware but seems that's not so.

Also just some DOOM NeXT port screenshots i took the the other day after i compiled Previous 2.8 and running NeXTStep OS 3.3 for funsies... That credits texture and screen is pretty cool, never saw that one before this.

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Buckshot

[Al-Faris M]

I found a rather strange difference between Episode 3's Hell Keep and Warrens: The door on the right side of the first room has a STEP texture that appears when you open it (E3M1: Hell Keep):

 

But in E3M9, Warrens, it's not there and instead displays a HOM effect:

[hfc2x]

There's a lot of problems with that one corridor in E3M9 that aren't present in E3M1, which makes me suspect it was based on an earlier version of the latter. In fact, E3M9 itself has other weird problems that E3M1 doesn't.

 

Regarding that corridor in E3M1, it is made up of multiple sectors, which helps separate it from the surrounding areas by changing the heights:

 

There's a small ledge sector to the left that separates it from the outside area with the crumbling bridge, which helps the floor flat transition from FLAT5_4 to FLOOR6_2 more seamlessly, by adding a ledge with STEP3 (yes, I was using cheats for the screenshots):

 

You can see that the ceiling height of that part of the corridor is lower than the open sky area (the corridor's ceiling is at 80, whereas the sky is at 88).

 

Now, see how E3M9 looks:

 

The entire corridor is a single sector with a ceiling height of 128, which creates all sorts of issues, ranging from the floor flat transition looking pretty bad, but most notably, the sky being lower than the ceiling of the inside corridor:

 

Here's a view from the inside of the corridor looking out, in E3M1:

 

And in E3M9:

 

There's also the issue of the door leading into this corridor from the starting area being very tall, leading to a possible softlock, because the player can press the close button and have enough time to run under the door, which is completely impossible in E3M1. This is how it looks in E3M9:

 

And in E3M1:

 

There's also a historic issue with both maps having a wrong tag in one of the sectors in this outside area:

 

When Doom v1.1 was released, in both of these maps, the sector with the FLAT10 floor was tagged with tag 6:

 

This meant that crossing the crumbling bridge in the western outside area would affect the aforementioned sector. Fortunately, there were no adverse effects, because Doom v1.1 and v1.2 simply changed the floor flat to something from one of the surrounding sectors. This is how that looks in both maps in v1.1:

 

This happens because line special 37 was apparently bugged and didn't actually change the properties of the affected sectors, so making that bridge lower would make it look like it was still sitting above the blood:

 

The problem started when id Software decided to "fix" this special in v1.666, because this would lead to a crash if a mistagged sector was affected by this special. Thankfully, Sandy realized this and removed the tag from the outside area in E3M1.. but not on E3M9. This caused the game to crash if you ever:

1. Played through E3M9
2. Lowered the bridge
3. Stepped on the mistagged sector outside

This is how it looks:

 

And weirdly enough, they didn't notice this was happening until v1.9, where the misplaced tag was finally removed.

[Alfonso]

22 hours ago, Buckshot said:

After all these years I thought the NeXT version of DOOM was the first playable version.  Apparently that is not the case.... While it was developed on NeXTstep on NeXT stations (and the textures and images done in DOS), it was played internally via DOS port. Apparently DOS was always the focus as the game was VGA oriented. It wasn't until after the game shipped and community outcry caused them to retroactively and make a NeXTstep port for DOOM (albeit without the DMX sound engine/library, so no audio in it). So I guess the DOS version was technically the version first playable.

 

Additionally, unlike DOOM, Quake was developed on NeXTStep OS but running on HP PaRisc systems as NeXTstep/OpenStep had been ported to other architectures by then. Always thought Quake was done on next hardware but seems that's not so.

Also just some DOOM NeXT port screenshots i took the the other day after i compiled Previous 2.8 and running NeXTStep OS 3.3 for funsies... That credits texture and screen is pretty cool, never saw that one before this.

 

Not really

 

[Buckshot]

4 hours ago, Alfonso said:

Not really

 

 

 

Seems to be some conflicting information out there suggesting it came after (I always believed it was internally playable on NeXTSTEP during development, but i guess that was wrong)...

 

https://wiki.c2.com/?NextStep

 

"....id Software wrote the "world builder" for DOOM on NextStep before NextStep was available for PaRisc. The game itself did not originally run on the Next, because the game engine was tuned for VGA bitplanes. DOOM was eventually ported to NextStep due to cries from the community, but it did not run well on the NeXTdimension. Not sure where Quake got its start, but NextStep ran on Intel by that time..."

 

As you're post came directly from Carmack, I guess that supersedes random wiki articles on the net on the subject, but if a beta version was released i would have assumed it would have popped up all these years later.

 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Buckshot

[SaladBadger]

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/File:Doom-development-1994.jpg

 

We have this ancient, low resolution, crusty as all hell image which shows an early version of Doom being ran on NeXT. The version of Doom being run resembles a post-Press Release Beta development version. As the description on the wiki states, it is showing early Doom source code and the game does seem to be running in gdb, so it seems likely that it's been running on both platforms.

 

I don't get anything here.. Doom isn't particularly optimized for bitplanes in general. The framebuffer code (though mostly bypassed by the 3D renderer in the released version of Doom) works with linear framebuffers that need to be munged on transport, and the image format used by the release game, compared to that of the alphas, doesn't have any particular optimizations for chunky graphics. Maybe it was once true? The framebuffer was generally munged in the alpha releases, as I can see from my reverse engineering efforts, but the function IO_BlitBlocks could unmunge it on the NeXT. (worth noting that the press release beta did run in linear mode 13h, compared to the final game which runs in mode x, similar to how heretic and hexen would eventually work)

[Buckshot]

7 minutes ago, SaladBadger said:

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/File:Doom-development-1994.jpg

 

We have this ancient, low resolution, crusty as all hell image which shows an early version of Doom being ran on NeXT. The version of Doom being run resembles a post-Press Release Beta development version. As the description on the wiki states, it is showing early Doom source code and the game does seem to be running in gdb, so it seems likely that it's been running on both platforms.

 

I don't get anything here.. Doom isn't particularly optimized for bitplanes in general. The framebuffer code (though mostly bypassed by the 3D renderer in the released version of Doom) works with linear framebuffers that need to be munged on transport, and the image format used by the release game, compared to that of the alphas, doesn't have any particular optimizations for chunky graphics. Maybe it was once true? The framebuffer was generally munged in the alpha releases, as I can see from my reverse engineering efforts, but the function IO_BlitBlocks could unmunge it on the NeXT. (worth noting that the press release beta did run in linear mode 13h, compared to the final game which runs in mode x, similar to how heretic and hexen would eventually work)

 

Interesting observation in that screenshot... The dock icon for suspected pre-release Doom.app running is the exact same imp image as it is on the actual general availability NextStep port, for what it's worth.

[Jack9955]

If you type IDMUS00 in Doom II, the game crashes.

[Buckshot]

So I know this is digressing away from the thread, but just to clear things up about the NeXTstep Doom build and usage during development, per Dave Taylor:

 

".... I used nextstep doom almost exclusively.  Carmack used it a ton, too.  It was great for debugging and quick iteration but you got a much better sense of any perf gains and how it really plays by running it in DOS.  

 

DOS was white hot misery for debugging and fast iteration, though.

 

The internal nextstep port obviously happened before the DOS release.  I didn't follow the public release of the nextstep version though....."

 

source: I messaged him.

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Buckshot

[Arieson]

That nerdy fuck John Carmack sabotaged the Sega Saturn port of DOOM I and II by denying the methods the devs used to make it run better. Did dude have an issue with SEGA?

[Alfonso]

Btw a semi official complete NEXT STEP port was released back then by Omni Group. It was mentioned in the official faq

http://blog.wilshipley.com/2013/12/

It requires the original DOS wads tho.

Better late than never i guess.

The files are here http://www.shawcomputing.net/resources/next/applications/omni/omni_group.html

Now if someone had the November 1993 beta it would be great.

[Andromeda]

5 hours ago, Arieson said:

That nerdy fuck John Carmack sabotaged the Sega Saturn port of DOOM I and II by denying the methods the devs used to make it run better. Did dude have an issue with SEGA?

Seems like he regrets that decision, I don't think he had any malicious intent behind it though:

 

[Shakariki Heisenberg]

just learned that map19 tnt has DOOMCUTE IN IT wait or was it 18 idk

[Tiramisu]

If you pause the game immediately after starting a stage, Doomguy will make an angry face in the HUD, like he's annoyed with you for taking your time with the options instead of getting on with the action! This is not present in ZDOOM ports because they don't allow for HUD animations when the game is paused.

[Al-Faris M]

19 hours ago, Shakariki Heisenberg said:

just learned that map19 tnt has DOOMCUTE IN IT wait or was it 18 idk

Yes, MAP19: Shipping/Respawning has a Doomcute truck as well as small computer screens, pretty cute.
 

57 minutes ago, sq. Tiramisu said:

If you pause the game immediately after starting a stage, Doomguy will make an angry face in the HUD, like he's annoyed with you for taking your time with the options instead of getting on with the action! This is not present in ZDOOM ports because they don't allow for HUD animations when the game is paused.

Oh my god.. Just tried doing this out in DSDA-Doom and it actually works!! This post made my day, thank you.

[Maximum Matt]

20 hours ago, Shakariki Heisenberg said:

just learned that map19 tnt has DOOMCUTE IN IT wait or was it 18 idk

TNT is the Doomcutiest IWAD of the bunch.

[Johney]

Just found out that the pickup graphic for the BFG2704 was finished at some point after the 0.5 alpha, and that the pistol pickup graphic I've seen in UDB wasn't custom either. There was also a Berserk Stim at one point (though it could be an alternate graphic for the Beserk pack). It makes me wonder if the view sprites of the missile launcher were completed; if the 2704 had a view sprite (or view sprites) made before being replaced by the 9000, if the Dark Claw had view sprites made before being scrapped, and how a Berserk Stim would've functioned (heh, maybe it would've worked how the Berserk pack was supposed to).

 

[Manny84]

A friend just told me that cyberdemon rockets don't actually fire from their arm but from their crotch. Big if true!

[philcul]

2 hours ago, Manny84 said:

A friend just told me that cyberdemon rockets don't actually fire from their arm but from their crotch. Big if true!

 

It's true. Just pull up a random Doom video on YouTube of a map with a cyberdemon, E2M8 for example, and pause the video during the firing animation. It should be easily visible.

And it's not like this because id wanted to do a funny joke, it's just every enemy - despite the animation frames suggesting otherwise - fires from the middle of its sprite.

[Faceman2000]

Has anyone made a ZDoom mod that just corrects that? I’ve considered making one myself but if someone else has that’ll save me the effort haha.

[Gemidori]

Doom 3 had an easter egg right before Cyberdemon that led you to a bunch of PDAs from id Software devs. Never noticed it but I did notice the Rage one from Lost Mission lol

[ludicrous_peridot]

On 6/6/2023 at 10:51 PM, ukiro said:

I played Doom 1.1 with 3 screens at my dad's job in I think march of 1994. That experience may very well have sowed the seed that decades later has resulted in me working professionally in AR and VR for over 10 years by now. Thanks Carmack! (I've actually thanked him for this in person.)

 

My story was that in 1996 (I think) father took me to a local trade show, and they had a VR helmet there exactly like you saw in magazine ads those days and Doom 1 was used to demo it. So, I didnt feel very much like trying this thing out (and I have not played Doom before that, I must admit), but after being urged by my dad I put the helmet on only for it be taken back for cooling (I think) a few seconds after. So nowhere near VR or game development, I'm afraid and I only learned about this feature an hour or so before recording the DOSBox video I've shared, which I did exactly to see what this was about! :)

 

Also thanks a lot for the video link, enjoyed watching it very much. One thing I have to say is that while it took me about 30 minutes to produce the DOSBox recording (hail emulation!) the shareware version I used actually came from the real floppies that I installed the "hard way" a few days before that. It was reading the manual of that version that I encountered the instructions for activating the three monitor mode.

[ludicrous_peridot]

On 6/11/2023 at 2:08 PM, Lippeth said:

This isn't something I currently know, and it's probably not the most interesting question but it's something I often think about and am curious to find out. I know that the source code was released for the Linux version of Doom and not the DOS version, but what explains the absence of DOS Doom's almost green hue to the grey colors in every source port? It's a small detail I guess, but is one of the few reasons I often prefer using vanilla Doom over other ports. It just adds a certain amount of je ne sais quoi that makes DOS Doom so addictive.



 

I was very curious and made Hangar screenshots with Shareware 1.1, DosDoom 0.2, BOOM 2.02 and DosDoom 0.61. I did notice a subtle difference (well, a huge difference in case of DosDoom 0.61) but not in the greenish hue department - which I can see in your gif. In fact all were much closer to the hues labelled as Chocolate. Made a gif, but scrapped it due to colors all being lumped into a 256 color gamut made no sense at all.

 

EDIT: I was still curious and compared what the port saved as a screenshot with what DOSBox was showing to me, and, while I frankly do not trust my own "measurement" , there was indeed a difference with Doom

Spoiler

that I did not see in BOOM. 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by ludicrous_peridot

[Geniraul]

Just yesterday I found out that

 

Spoiler

in MyHouse.pk3 after you go through one of the mirrors you can proceed to 20pam Sllahrednu, finish the level and come back to MyHouse again. Before, I always went back through the mirror to the normal reality too soon for some mysterious reason.

 

[hfc2x]

On 6/13/2023 at 7:55 PM, Jack9955 said:

If you type IDMUS00 in Doom II, the game crashes.

If you use the IDMUS cheat at all in Doom 1 (post Doom 2 launch), the game crashes. This wasn't fixed until the official release of The Ultimate Doom. Even in Doom v1.9 Special Edition (the work-in-progress leak of Ultimate), the game still crashes.

[ludicrous_peridot]

I've put a hack into MBF to make it imitate original Doom looks (in a sense at least that the palette loaded into the VGA adapter is identical to that in Doom 1.1) , but am not sure it got the grays to be sufficiently greenish...

Spoiler

MBF

 

MBF with hack

 

Doom 1.1

 

 

[NaturalTvventy]

Switch textures don't animate when they also have a switch texture assigned as upper/lower.

 

I always wondered why this switch in NEIS e4m1 didn't animate...

Now I know!

Edited June 23, 2023 by NaturalTvventy