Post Your Opinions About Doom (Whether Controversial or Not)

[Sotenga]

I also prefer TNT over Plutonia! Although my appreciation of Plutonia rose on a recent play and I better understand its praise, I just think TNT is weirder and a more interesting product, if not a messier one. 

 

And of course, it served as the base of TNT Revilution, which instantly became one of my favorite modern megawads and everyone needs to play it even if they weren't big on the original.

[MajorRawne]

Having always hated Plutonia due to it being damaging floor/chaingun/revenant spam, with unfair traps liberally sprinkled throughout, I've got to say that on my recent playthrough I realise it's really cohesive and well thought out. Most maps look good and most are cleverly designed. Most of them were enjoyable.

 

I am currently playing through TNT and find that I miss the constant action of Plutonia, though I wince every time an archie or chaingunner appears due to fatigue from said megawad. The map quality is more variable in TNT. The one where you have to run across nukage while the ceiling tries to crush you was pretty awful. However, TNT is generally fair and is pretty atmospheric. Some maps are as close to creepy as non-PSX Doom can get. The gameplay generally feels more laid back, more welcoming to the majority of players, more closely related to the original games than Plutonia. They don't spam the exact same thing every map.

 

As for which is better? My first experience of Final Doom was on the PSX and it's significant that Plutonia was dropped almost entirely, while TNT and the Master Levels featured heavily. It's strange to play the PC version as some of the maps are more complicated (needlessly so in the case of Deepest Reaches) and the lack of creepy music/creepy lighting hurts.

 

It is hard to think of a map whose loss was a blow to PSX Final Doom. The creative team knew how they wanted the port to play, they knew which maps fit in with this, they knew which maps would make PSX players cry with frustration (Twilight) or boredom. The areas that were cut or simplified in maps just don't really matter, they were either pointless dead-ends, wavy corridors or poorly-textured bits which added nothing to the gameplay. A good example of the latter is Containment Area in Ultimate Doom where the weird raising/lowering floors were cut out, or the spooky-face dead end in Pandemonium.

[Chip]

1 hour ago, PSXDoomer said:

I'm probably one of the few people here that prefers TNT over Plutonia.

I do too. I thought a major thing about TNT was finding new things in the same room and admiring the cool architecture and stuff, while Plutonia was like regular DOOM + SHOOT EVERYTHING IN SIGHT. 

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

1 hour ago, PSXDoomer said:

I'm probably one of the few people here that prefers TNT over Plutonia.

Me too

[Jacek Bourne]

1 hour ago, PSXDoomer said:

I'm probably one of the few people here that prefers TNT over Plutonia.

My take on this is that TNT best levels are better than almost all in plutonia yet it’s worst levels are far worse. It is very inconsistent in quality. Plutonia is mostly consistent in quality and is harder so I prefer it. However if I cut out all of TNT’s bad maps and all of Plutonia’s bad maps, I might slightly favor TNT over Plutonia.

[Stupid Bunny]

48 minutes ago, Chip said:

I do too. I thought a major thing about TNT was finding new things in the same room and admiring the cool architecture and stuff, while Plutonia was like regular DOOM + SHOOT EVERYTHING IN SIGHT. 

I think it’s this that I really like about TNT at its best. There’s a ton of exploration to be done in even the smaller maps, it’s great for just wandering around and feeling out the environments, some of which are really cool. I get the appeal of the 5-Minute Run-N-Gun map but the experience can leave me feeling a bit hollow sometimes, and TNT offers lots of opportunities to poke around and find strange and interesting little things hidden away around the place, immersing oneself in the world the map has created. It’s a slow burn that, yeah, sometimes really doesn’t pay off at all, but when it does it makes I think for a cool and even moving experience. 

[CasualScrub]

I've always like TNT better. Plutonia can be a bit of a ballache compared to the other official WADs, and I just think it's uglier compared to TNT.

[Teo Slayer]

I like Doom II more than Doom I or Ultimate Doom

[Teo Slayer]

3 hours ago, Final Verdict said:

 

Yes, I can't really disagree with that. I meant judged by itself I can honestly say I never thought the general consensus was that TNT was bad. 

 

As you said TNT had a larger team so the maps were more inconsistent from one to the next, where as Plutonia had a more focused and consistent approach. That's often where it gets compared along with difficulty et-cetera. Naturally it won't match up there because that was never TNT's strength.

 

I'm just chiming in here with my opinion on it, which is more or less the same as yours. It's a fairly accurate assessment when we're comparing TNT vs Plutonia as is usually the case. I just mean judged on it's own merits it's no where near the realm of bad in my opinion. If the general consensus is that TNT is just bad, regardless of comparisons, then it's news to me after all these years and I was completely unaware of that.

 

While it does have a few maps that are suspect it largely succeeds in being a fun little adventure.

 

TNT's maps have a really good-looking design tho

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

15 hours ago, omalefico32x said:

just played habitat saveless and i have to say to everyone who says it is bad or the worse ARE YOU OUT OF OUR MIND? its not a masterpiece but its a lot better then a lot of the levels from doom 2 you know what? tnt is a lot better then doom 2 and i dont know why people say its bad...

For me, habitat is like sandy petersen's maps. very abstract, but, enjoyable.

Spoiler

Yes, I've said that habitat sucks, but, I changed my mind, it's a nice level.

 

[FrozenPizza]

I can't stand Slaughtermaps. I'm not sure if it's just because I'm bad, but running around and relying on infighting just isn't my jam. I want to actively engage in the fight on screen as much as possible, with in fighting a tool you can use but don't have to rely on. 

[Rei is now real]

5 hours ago, PSXDoomer said:

I'm probably one of the few people here that prefers TNT over Plutonia.

Hey, I do too.

[roadworx]

2 hours ago, Teo Slayer said:

I like Doom II more than Doom I or Ultimate Doom

that's not even remotely controversial

[1Destro3456]

This opinion might get me canceled on this forums, it's my most controversial opinion in ANY subject. This will get doxxed and harassed all over the internet. I won't be able to sleep well at night after saying this opinion. Someone will hack me then come into my home to kill me because of this opinion. But I don't care, here we go.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I Like Brutal Doom

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit just in case somebody really thinks I think like this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a joke

 

[Kyka]

Just now, 1Destro3456 said:

This opinion might get me canceled on this forums, it's my most controversial opinion in ANY subject. This will get doxxed and harassed all over the internet. I won't be able to sleep well at night after saying this opinion. Someone will hack me then come into my home to kill me because of this opinion. But I don't care, here we go.

 

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I Like Doom

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit just in case somebody really thinks I think like this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a joke

 

ftfy!!! ;)

 

(na , its cool, jokes. In truth I am glad that there are so so many different ways to enjoy Doom. right now I love playing classic Doom wads with the GZDoom 'vanilla essence' mod, and the 'screem pals' colormap' fixes, and perkristians sound fixes, and the 'minor sprite fix wad.' So many great ways to enjoy this game.)

[Snarboo]

Having played through Heretic again (the original 3 episodes, plus some user maps), its bestiary feels better designed than Doom's. This is both because its bestiary has more interesting behavior or unique abilities, and because most of them are about as tough as Doom 2's Revenant, making them easier to mow down. A lot of the basic monsters have variants, too, keeping things fresh. The Ghost mechanic is also legit better than Doom's lone Spectres and Blursphere, as it renders the stronger weapons moot and allows for some absolutely dickish setups that Doom can't touch (try putting Ghost Knights behind a horde of Ghost Golems).

 

You add in Heretic's arsenal, which is mostly* better balanced than Doom's, and Heretic's inventory system, and you've got gameplay that feels a lot more dynamic when at its best. Sure, Doom 2 has more monsters and a bestiary that's very good about making you move, but anything past a Revenant can be a chore to fight given Doom's propensity for meat wall enemies. The supershotgun doesn't always compensate for this, either.

 

Spoiler

*That said, where Heretic suffers is how random its weapon damage values are. The Crossbow can do between 14 and 112 points of damage. WHY?! This can make certain situations more grindy than Doom ironically, but even Weredragons and Ophidians go down without much hassle.

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Snarboo : minor correction

[Mayomancer]

I must step in to defend Plutonia! While it's deservedly infamous in a lot of ways, it's style is recognizable and copied to this day, and i personally love how a lot of the levels look. The excessive use of... certain enemy types is so unapologetic i would even call it charming.

I wouldn't go as far as to say it's *better* than Doom or Doom 2, but in my opinion it's lows are just not as low (looking at you, Nirvana and Limbo), and it has really good highs. I'm also biased due to just not liking how most of TNT looks, although it does have a few levels i really like as well.

[out_of_service]

Just to add to my earlier comment about my preference of TNT over Plutonia: It's not that I dislike Plutonia, I recognize and appreciate it's significance. For me it's the sameness of all the levels that I find draining. Brown everything. Too many Chaingunners/Revenants/Archviles/Mancubi ambushes. If you've played the first few maps, then you've pretty much seen everything. 

[Kyka]

5 minutes ago, Mayomancer said:

 it's (Plutonia's) style is recognizable and copied to this day, and i personally love how a lot of the levels look.

 

TNT is immensely better than Plutonia in terms of concept and 'vision'. (There. the controversial part of this post out of the way.)

 

But I agree with Mayomancer in that Plutonia just somehow looks 'right'. It has massively influenced level design more than any other iwad, (with the possible exception of Doom E1), and this, I believe, is because it uses architectural principles of space and design and appearance much more so than the other iwads. Pillars are the right thickness, corridors are the right width, ceilings are the right height relative to the size of the rooms, there is symmetry and an overarching 'look' that just 'feels' right. Plutonia goes the closest to being Doom's 'golden ratio' mapset.

 

I am sure a real architect could explain this much better than me.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by bLOCKbOYgAMES : because I should have added that what I have said in no way excuses Plutonia's use of GODDAM REVENANT AND CHAINGUNNERS F*%^&*G EVERYWHERE asdfljk;rewkihloj;dfaslkj;

[HyperCynic]

DOOMGUY is a pussy. Motherfucker can't even jump. What's speed without the ability to get over obstacles?

[HyperCynic]

8 minutes ago, bLOCKbOYgAMES said:

 

TNT is immensely better than Plutonia in terms of concept and 'vision'. (There. the controversial part of this post out of the way.)

 

But I agree with Mayomancer in that Plutonia just somehow looks 'right'. It has massively influenced level design more than any other iwad, (with the possible exception of Doom E1), and this, I believe, is because it uses architectural principles of space and design and appearance much more so than the other iwads. Pillars are the right thickness, corridors are the right width, ceilings are the right height relative to the size of the rooms, there is symmetry and an overarching 'look' that just 'feels' right. Plutonia goes the closest to being Doom's 'golden ratio' mapset.

 

I am sure a real architect could explain this much better than me.

 

I feel like Plutonia creates more memorable environments, even if they aren't as well thought out in some cases. The reason Plutonia works so well is that you REMEMBER it I think. Maybe? I feel like that's why I much prefer Plutonia. I just find so much of TNT bland as hell that it blurs together for me. I know that might sound mean but I oddly found Plutonia more enjoyable in ever sense aside from the soundtrack.

 

Dude, the TNT soundtrack is really good in some parts. It's a shame Plutonia didn't receive similar treatment. However if somebody wants to direct me to something akin to that crunchydoom ML OST (I think it was crunchy doom?) for Plutonia. 

 

EDIT* Hell, I prefer Master Levels to TNT honestly...

[Kyka]

Just now, HyperCynic said:

DOOMGUY is a pussy. Motherfucker can't even jump. What's speed without the ability to get over obstacles?

 

 

...I very respectfully suggest that actually it is pussies who jump over obstacles. Doomguy just goes through them. Rip and Tear amirite?

[HyperCynic]

Just now, bLOCKbOYgAMES said:

 

 

...I very respectfully suggest that actually it is pussies who jump over obstacles. Doomguy just goes through them. Rip and Tear amirite?

 

Or you are so badass you rocketjump/archvile jump over them too. You sir have changed my opinion immediately. Even though I was just shitposting haha

[Kyka]

Just now, HyperCynic said:

 

Or you are so badass you rocketjump/archvile jump over them too. You sir have changed my opinion immediately. Even though I was just shitposting haha

 

I am humbled to have influenced your thoughts good sir. Of course I figured you were just stirring lol. Imagine using demonic attempts to destroy you as nothing more than a means of getting somewhere in a hurry.

 

"Good-day to you my infernal arch-vile-friend," says doomguy. "Would you be so good as to immolate me and do your best to destroy me, body and soul? I really need to be... over there."

[ax34]

I like Doom though i don't like everything bloody and everything demonic.

Does it count?

[Rei is now real]

I like Brutal Doom.

Shame me, idc.

[Andromeda]

2 hours ago, HyperCynic said:

Dude, the TNT soundtrack is really good in some parts. It's a shame Plutonia didn't receive similar treatment. However if somebody wants to direct me to something akin to that crunchydoom ML OST (I think it was crunchy doom?) for Plutonia.

Plutonia MIDI Pack perhaps?

[1Destro3456]

23 minutes ago, HEVSoldier_nova said:

I like Brutal Doom.

Shame me, idc.

just kidding, play Doom however you like only thing is that that's probably not that controversial of an opinion

[ReaperAA]

Speaking about TNT: Evilution vs Plutonia, I prefer playing Plutonia.

 

However, while I like Plutonia more, I actually wish TNT was more popular than Plutonia (especially among mappers). I know this sounds contradictory, but there is a good reason for this. You see, I like the concept/idea of TNT more than the concept of Plutonia, but TNT itself lacks the polish that could put itself above Plutonia.

 

Basically what I am saying is that I wish there were more wads that had TNT style approach (i.e less arena and more exploration). TNT: Revilution is one of my favorite wads because it has the TNT approach, but is actually polished unlike Evilution.

[MajorRawne]

I like the Doom 2 map Nirvana. I found it an entertaining and weird diversion. The acid room is one of the most memorable parts of any map in OG Doom.