Mick Gordon unlikely to work on another Doom game after Eternal’s OST release

[indigotyrian]

4 hours ago, Eurisko said:

Bethesda fires back!!!

This could get ugly. 

 

 

Bethesda's so fucked. Anyone trying to "both sides" this stuff is just utterly blind at what's going on here -- Bethesda has to respond not with litigation or with silence but with a shitty little note passive-aggressively denying what Gordon asserted without offering an ounce of counterevidence.

[Ozcar]

Plot twist: Tim willist and marty statton are canoncally married. For being worst person at id software.

[shadowrider78]

6 hours ago, Eurisko said:

Bethesda fires back!!!

This could get ugly. 

 

well this was a load of nothing

[Urthar]

I don't expect companies to be angels, especially big publishers, and for all I know Mick Gordon might be difficult to work with.

 

But I don't care, nothing excuses stealing a contractor's work. They've paid him for 142 minutes of music, and then sneaked an additional 144 minutes of material in the game, that they had previously rejected. That's fraud. In the UK you could pursue that as a criminal case if you chose to. And they're not denying it. They're just asserting that Mick has mischaracterised and mispresented the situation in the vaguest terms, with no specifics or evidence given.

 

Meanwhile Mick's 14000 word statement is highly detailed, refutes the specific allegations made against him point by point, and provides documentation to back it all up. He even goes so far as to ask people not to make any personal attacks at anyone at id, or indulge in any online hate campaigns.

 

I mean, I know who I believe, but hey, read it and decide for yourself.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Urthar

[Kyka]

Point the first) Bethesda has had literal years to sort this out or make this right. They have categorically not done so.

 

Point the second) Bethesda has a long history of treating people poorly, including the public. (Insert Internet Historian's Fallout 76 video here.)

 

Point the third) Mick, as a single dude, had no option but to go public. He knew that it would not fix the problem with Bethesda. He must have known that. I believe he did it primarily to stop the internet harassment. He clearly got to the point in dealing with Bethesda that he was all out of options. They have more money than him. They have more options than him. They can simply starve him out, and even if they lose in court, they pay him out without any real consequence to themselves.

 

Point the fourth) It would have cost Bethesda nothing to do the right thing contractually by Mick. It would not have affected them at all.

 

Point the fifth) Bethesda making a public announcement at this point has nothing to do with transparency or integrity. It is purely protecting their bottom line. It shows no desire for reconciliation or restitution.

 

Point the sixth) F*** Bethesda.  

Edited November 18, 2022 by Kyka

[TheFocus]

15 hours ago, Ozcar said:

Plot twist: Tim willist and marty statton are canoncally married. For being worst person at id software.

i need to be caught up, what did Tim Willits do? (besides riding the coattails of more talented people)

[whatup876]

I heard stories of him being why a game like Quake 2 didn't get some features or making McGee do something that Carmack then got mad at McGee for.

He's notorious for getting shit wrong like a video where he called the Arch-vile "the Revenant from the original Doom" and saying he came up with "Multiplayer only maps" which lead to Romero and McGee to call out.

He also said that classic Doomguy (from the games he wasn't even involved in) was inspired by Warhammer 40K marines even though everyone knows the actual influences nowadays.

I'm sure someone has better knowledge and articulation over his history.

[Doom-X-Machina]

On 11/17/2022 at 7:35 AM, Eurisko said:

Bethesda fires back!!!

This could get ugly. 

 

Facepalm of all facepalms... damage control much?

They've literally made themselves look even worse by responding like this. The hypocrisy...

Bethesda aren't making another cent from me until they show some decency because right now this dumpster fire is turning into an inferno and they're literally pouring petrol on themselves.

[Herr Dethnout]

On 11/16/2022 at 9:25 PM, Ozcar said:

Plot twist: Tim willist and marty statton are canoncally married. For being worst person at id software.

idk why, but is so funny seeing Tim Willits bald. lol

[Dweller Dark]

I'm on Mick's side with this, after catching up on everything. He might not have super-duper-concrete evidence, but it's more than the statement we got from Bethesda/id afterwards and he tried to be non-hostile about it as far as I can tell. 

 

 

Aside from that, it appears Wikipedia deleted Marty's page for some reason, maybe related to this. Here's what you get now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty_Stratton versus what I could find on Internet Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20221114204645/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty_Stratton

 

 

 

 

[HalfLife9000]

10 minutes ago, Dweller said:

I'm on Mick's side with this, after catching up on everything. He might not have super-duper-concrete evidence, but it's more than the statement we got from Bethesda/id afterwards and he tried to be non-hostile about it as far as I can tell. 

 

 

Aside from that, it appears Wikipedia deleted Marty's page for some reason, maybe related to this. Here's what you get now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty_Stratton versus what I could find on Internet Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20221114204645/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty_Stratton

 

 

 

 

doomguy, john carmack, and john romero circle strafed the wikipedia post out of existence

[HalfLife9000]

14 hours ago, Kyka said:

Point the first) Bethesda has had literal years to sort this out or make this right. They have categorically not done so.

 

Point the second) Bethesda has a long history of treating people poorly, including the public. (Insert Internet Historian's Fallout 76 video here.)

 

Point the third) Mick, as a single dude, had no option but to go public. He knew that it would not fix the problem with Bethesda. He must have known that. I believe he did it primarily to stop the internet harassment. He clearly got to the point in dealing with Bethesda that he was all out of options. They have more money than him. They have more options than him. They can simply starve him out, and even if they lose in court, they pay him out without any real consequence to themselves.

 

Point the fourth) It would have cost Bethesda nothing to do the right thing contractually by Mick. It would not have affected them at all.

 

Point the fifth) Bethesda making a public announcement at this point has nothing to do with transparency or integrity. It is purely protecting their bottom line. It shows no desire for reconciliation or restitution.

 

Point the sixth) F*** Bethesda.  

SiXtEen TImEs tHe dEtaIl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kyka]

1 minute ago, HalfLife9000 said:

SiXtEen TImEs tHe dEtaIl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

For some reason this made me laugh a lot. Like an actual lot.

[HalfLife9000]

2 minutes ago, Kyka said:

 

For some reason this made me laugh a lot. Like an actual lot.

honestly EA, Bethseda, and Activision-"BlIzZarD" are the definition of "i can buy you" to me

[LuciferSam86]

5 hours ago, Dweller said:

I'm on Mick's side with this, after catching up on everything. He might not have super-duper-concrete evidence, but it's more than the statement we got from Bethesda/id afterwards and he tried to be non-hostile about it as far as I can tell. 

 

 

Aside from that, it appears Wikipedia deleted Marty's page for some reason, maybe related to this. Here's what you get now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty_Stratton versus what I could find on Internet Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20221114204645/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty_Stratton

 

 

 

 

You can always see why a page deleted reading the deletion log
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Marty_Stratton

[Bucket]

A sure-fire way to assure people that you also have evidence on your side is to provide exactly none of that evidence.

A sound tactical move, Bethesda.

[LuciferSam86]

The reason of wikipedia page deletion is:

Quote

The result was delete. Consensus here is to delete this article and no editor has brought forth sources that could establish notability. Anyone can create a redirect from this page to id Software. Liz Read! Talk! 06:04, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

 

[Horus]

16 minutes ago, Bucket said:

A sure-fire way to assure people that you also have evidence on your side is to provide exactly none of that evidence.

A sound tactical move, Bethesda.

 

Their aim is to convince the courts, not the people. Not saying that they are in the right, but it's not appropriate to release the evidence on Twitter if they plan to take it to the courts.

[Chezza]

I agree with Horus, although Bethesda are likely the bad guys, retaliating on Twitter like it's some sort of public civil court for random tweeters to judge would be incredibly unprofessional and futile.

 

It's more forgiveable for Mick Gordon to speak out this way as he is (I assume) in an disadvantage position burning out all options other than resorting to a lengthy costly legal battle with a big ? against his name publicly. Since Marty allegedly broke their verbal agreement and spoke out against Mick first, he probably wanted to get his story out there to protect his image and get leverage over public opinion before the big court case.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Chezza

[Bucket]

1 hour ago, Horus said:

 

Their aim is to convince the courts, not the people. Not saying that they are in the right, but it's not appropriate to release the evidence on Twitter if they plan to take it to the courts.

 

No, they definitely want to convince their consumer base that they're in the right. Or if you prefer: they need to convince their shareholders that their consumer base will settle down. You'll notice the whiplash-inducing shift in tone between Marty's screed and Mick bringing the receipts.

[scalliano]

Nothing says sincerity like white text on a black PNG.

[MrHofmann]

How come everyone forgot when Mick riled up the community with his initial passive aggressive tweets, which led to death threats against Chad, and did nothing to calm the fans. But now he is complaining for receiving death threats caused by Marty's open letter. Playing the victim much.

 

Guys, don't be so quick on making your judgements. It might as well be that Mick is the one which manipulates and the victim is you.

[Gez]

47 minutes ago, MrHofmann said:

It might as well be that Mick is the one which manipulates and the victim is you.

I doubt Mick lied in what he posted on Medium. Now you could say those are cherry-picked facts -- and that's certainly true, since this is how such things are supposed to be done.

 

In a court, a neutral party would interrogate both parties, establish the validity of the pieces both parties bring to their case, look into whether there's anything missing from both, and try to establish the big picture to eventually issue judgment.

 

We're not in court and we do not have the authority to do the investigative work, so we cannot issue judgment. The one thing I'll agree with is that the Internet mob mentality of harassing and threatening people at the drop of a hat is a plague on modern society. For the rest, I don't feel victimized by either Mick's Medium post or Marty's Reddit post.

[scalliano]

5 hours ago, MrHofmann said:

How come everyone forgot when Mick riled up the community with his initial passive aggressive tweets, which led to death threats against Chad, and did nothing to calm the fans. But now he is complaining for receiving death threats caused by Marty's open letter. Playing the victim much.

 

Guys, don't be so quick on making your judgements. It might as well be that Mick is the one which manipulates and the victim is you.

No one forgot - it's just that a tweet that basically says, "nah, those aren't mine", and another that says, "probably won't be back", hardly qualifies as incitement.

[Kyka]

1 minute ago, scalliano said:

No one forgot - it's just that a tweet that basically says, "nah, those aren't mine", and another that says, "probably won't be back", hardly qualifies as incitement.

 

Agreed. If even half of what Mick said is true, He was treated poorly over a long period of time. If anything he was speaking in a very understated way. "Nah those aren't mine," is just a factual statement, and "Probably won't be back," hints at something gone very wrong, but in no way discloses any details or blame.

 

I remember reading those tweets when they were first made after the release of Doom Eternal, and I saw straight away that something has gone very very wrong in this working relationship.

[indigotyrian]

6 hours ago, MrHofmann said:

How come everyone forgot when Mick riled up the community with his initial passive aggressive tweets, which led to death threats against Chad, and did nothing to calm the fans. But now he is complaining for receiving death threats caused by Marty's open letter. Playing the victim much.

 

Guys, don't be so quick on making your judgements. It might as well be that Mick is the one which manipulates and the victim is you.

 

boy howdy you sure seem hell bent on establishing Mick Gordon as the evil mastermind who's inciting toxic behavior! you'd surely have receipts for this right?

[chemo]

Was Mick deliberately inciting a witch hunt? I don't think that can be said with certainty. After all, he was answering questions given to him and was likely overwhelmed by the negative reception directed towards the quality of the soundtrack.

 

However, I can see why someone may come up with this interpretation; his comments were extremely vague and cryptic and he made no attempt to quell the hate mob that ensued. So, what I will say is that he didn't handle the situation in public very professionally, nor was Marty's Reddit post completely unsolicited (even if its authenticity is up in the air).

[Ragu]

If someone is hurting your reputation by releasing a poor product with your name on it, I think you're entitled to push back against that publicly. Unless you consider expressing displeasure within earshot of gamers "incitement", it's just absurd pearl-clutching.

[indigotyrian]

4 hours ago, chemo said:

Was Mick deliberately inciting a witch hunt? I don't think that can be said with certainty. After all, he was answering questions given to him and was likely overwhelmed by the negative reception directed towards the quality of the soundtrack.

 

However, I can see why someone may come up with this interpretation; his comments were extremely vague and cryptic and he made no attempt to quell the hate mob that ensued. So, what I will say is that he didn't handle the situation in public very professionally, nor was Marty's Reddit post completely unsolicited (even if its authenticity is up in the air).

 

You very specifically gave me shit in a separate thread stating that Gordon himself was begging people not to be toxic:

 

 

 

Now you're saying he didn't even try?

Edited November 20, 2022 by segfault

[chemo]

58 minutes ago, segfault said:

 

You very specifically gave me shit in a separate thread stating that Gordon himself was begging people not to be toxic: 

 

 

 

Now you're saying he didn't even try?

I think it's possible that he just didn't know any better at the time. I'm not accusing him of malicious intent, I was explaining why someone may think he had.

Edited November 20, 2022 by chemo