Ultimate Doom is deeply flawed beyond E1

[Marcaek]

35 votes is not even close to a sample size worth consideration

[DJVCardMaster]

1 minute ago, Marcaek said:

35 votes is not even close to a sample size worth consideration

Good time to start voting then :)

[Nevander]

For me, my favorite to least favorite is E1, E4, E2, E3.

[Gunstar Green]

I love the progression of the original Doom, from the high-tech base of E1, to the growing hellish influence in E2, ending in the twisted landscape of hell itself in E3.

 

While I love Doom 2 to death I don't really have any issues with the lack of the SSG in Doom 1. That's what the bigger guns are there for. You tend to have plenty rockets and plasma ammo to take down the  big enemies unless you're being really anal about saving it up. I never really found myself going, "gee I wish I had more firepower," in the original three episodes because they don't really throw more at you than you can handle.

 

I could complain about E4 but I don't really want to. I know it doesn't really fit in very well with the original levels and it sort of follows Doom II's difficulty curve more than the original's, but it is what it is, a challenging episode that was designed to tempt fans to buy a retail copy of the game. I like it and think they do some clever stuff with some of the levels. I sometimes wonder if people would be less hard on it if they hadn't tried to tie it into the story and just called it a challenge episode.

[Steve D]

I'm a huge fan of E1 and E4. E2 also had some great maps. IMO, E2M2 is the creepiest map in the official IWADs, helped by an incredible music track. 

 

In some ways, the most obvious problem with the maps after E1 is their appearance, but if you can overlook that, there's plenty of fun to be had.

 

[Xfing]

I have no idea why people have problems with levels like E3M2 or even E3M6. They're some of the most iconic and memorable full-on hell levels in the game. More than the layout makes the level, the texturing is probably of paramount importance and can salvage a lot of even Sandy Petersen's supposed bad mapping.

[leodoom85]

Is this another "why I have problems with those maps in Doom?"

I think that some players are flawed.

[Firedust]

E2 is the best Ultimate Doom ever, period.

 

E2>E4>E1>E3

 

Also, Ultimate Doom >>>>>>>> Doom 2

[Deadwing]

I also enjoy more E2 than the other episodes. For me:

E2 > E1 > E3 > E4

[Nancsi]

9 hours ago, Xfing said:

I have no idea why people have problems with levels like E3M2 or even E3M6. They're some of the most iconic and memorable full-on hell levels in the game. More than the layout makes the level, the texturing is probably of paramount importance and can salvage a lot of even Sandy Petersen's supposed bad mapping.

 

E3M2 is the map I don't want to play again ever. It doesn't look hellish at the first place, all we see are those ugly gray metal textures. The layout looks cool from the 2D view, but is horrible to navigate in 3D. Also, gameplay is shit, especially with pistolstart. There is no ammo, you are just looking around in those cramped "finger" corridors to find sense. It's my least favourite Doom (1-2) map ever made.

[Master O]

21 hours ago, Not Jabba said:

 

As a great demon rights activist once wrote, "A Cacodemon must have money and a closet of its own if it is to kill Doomguy."

 

Cacodemon Lives Matter!

[Xfing]

47 minutes ago, Nancsi said:

 

E3M2 is the map I don't want to play again ever. It doesn't look hellish at the first place, all we see are those ugly gray metal textures.

 

It's not metal, it's stilled ash, come on.  

 

47 minutes ago, Nancsi said:

 

The layout looks cool from the 2D view, but is horrible to navigate in 3D. Also, gameplay is shit, especially with pistolstart. There is no ammo, you are just looking around in those cramped "finger" corridors to find sense.

 

Yeah, it's called "difficulty" :P

 

[leodoom85]

1 hour ago, Nancsi said:

Also, gameplay is shit, especially with pistolstart. There is no ammo, you are just looking around in those cramped "finger" corridors to find sense.

Do you even berserk bro?

Berserk is the key......no wonder why you're flawed. You better use everything at your favor, even the fist. It can be even more effective than rockets...

[chemo]

I think DOOM 1 and 2 are about equal in terms of how good they are all-around, but while DOOM II has some of the best moments of the classic series, it also has some pretty bad ones, whereas U-DOOM doesn't reach the same heights as often but is overall more consistent in quality and I think the later episodes live up to E1.

Edited December 21, 2018 by chemo

[seed]

1 hour ago, leodoom85 said:

Do you even berserk bro?

Berserk is the key......no wonder why you're flawed.

 

That's gonna hurt :v .

[Nancsi]

I like berserking but that map still stinks.

[Doomkid]

As a Doomer who primarily plays deathmatch, I quickly threw my copy of The Ultimate Doom into the trash can after just a few rounds of Doom 2. Once you go SSG, you never go back.

 

 

obviously I still love doom1 and this is a joke💕💕💕 don’t hurt me. Seriously though the SSG and the expanded enemy roster are easily responsible for the game’s longevity among mappers and modders and their products are what keep people hanging around the community, so yay for that!

[Devils950003]

Agree somewhat with the OP.  As far as E2 goes, I actually prefer some of the shortened versions of PSX Doom...some of those E2 missions can really drag, and almost feel long for the sake of being long.  Some E3 levels (Unholy Cathedral and Limbo) I've always found kind of annoying. 

[GarrettChan]

I don't understand why people excludes Berserk when talking about resource management, which makes a map having Berserk with low amount of ammo automatically bad. Also, people like to complain the map forced the player to skip enemies and come back to them later.

[Cynical]

On 12/20/2018 at 6:31 AM, Nancsi said:

Is it just me, or UD is really really flawed beyond episode 1?

Nah, E1 is the worst part of UD, you just have shit taste.

[Nine Inch Heels]

On 12/20/2018 at 7:31 AM, Nancsi said:

While I wait eagerly for Romero's episode, I guess this will be an issue

And what makes you think Romero's SIGIL is gonna do anything different? It's still for Doom(1), it still has no SGG, and it still has a lack of midtiers in the roster. If Romero isn't reasonably generous with rockets and plasma when he uses higher tier monsters, then there is a good chance the gameplay will become slightly "chewy" in places, which is pretty much the same issue I have with some of the later maps in Doom.

 

Doom was designed at a time where it was legitimately pioneering the FPS-genre, mind. Sure it has flaws which stem from the genre's infancy as a whole, plus people at the time basically sucked at these games so much so that things we'd consider "fluff" these days were a reason for them to worry back then.

DoomII does a lot of things better, regardless of people's preferences, since it made a good effort to add things to the roster that compensated for the gaps that were previously there. Literally every monster that's been added in DoomII is a meaningful addition to the game, including the Baron's weaker cousin.

[leodoom85]

1 hour ago, GarrettChan said:

I don't understand why people excludes Berserk when talking about resource management, which makes a map having Berserk with low amount of ammo automatically bad. Also, people like to complain the map forced the player to skip enemies and come back to them later.

Exactly. Doom is all about survival and berserk is such a godsend when used in the right hands...

[Steve D]

22 minutes ago, Cynical said:

Nah, E1 is the worst part of UD, you just have shit taste.

 

Blasphemy!

 

My episode ranking: E1>E4>E2>E3

[Uni]

I can't see how episode 1 is better than any other episode. It has the shareware content with limited monsters, weapons and items. It had only techbases which for me is so fucking boring to look at this point, it's unbelievable. I think the only episode that held its ground is episode 4 as I still find some of its maps to be asthetically pleasing and enjoyable to play. I think episode 1 is certainly the weakest for me.

[Steve D]

16 minutes ago, leodoom85 said:

Exactly. Doom is all about survival and berserk is such a godsend when used in the right hands...

 

Especially against those teal demons in Eviternity. Their speed and ability to survive 2 SSG blasts makes them a real hassle in close quarters, unless you have the Zerk. Then they turn out to be a bunch of chumps with "Victim" signs hanging around their necks. One-on-one, anyway. ;)

Edited December 21, 2018 by Steve D

[Nancsi]

Might be a n00bish question, but are there any elements in UD that is not there in D2? Art, sounds, code etc? I guess the music might not present in D2, but anything else?

[Steve D]

7 minutes ago, Uni said:

It had only techbases which for me is so fucking boring to look at this point, it's unbelievable.

 

The key words here are, "which for me". There is no way to argue taste, but would you say the same about the techbases in BTSX E1 or Eviternity? And it's been pointed out before that many Goth and Hell maps which take place in castles or other structures are nothing more than techbases with a different texture set. ;) Same halls and rectilinear rooms, just a different skin and torches instead of floor lamps. But what you prefer is what you prefer, and I love me some techbases and all those wonderful E1 secrets. 

[Nine Inch Heels]

3 minutes ago, Nancsi said:

Might be a n00bish question, but are there any elements in UD that is not there in D2? Art, sounds, code etc? I guess the music might not present in D2, but anything else?

It's a different exe, so if that qualifies as different code, there you go. It also has different textures.

[seed]

1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

DoomII does a lot of things better, regardless of people's preferences, since it made a good effort to add things to the roster that compensated for the gaps that were previously there. Literally every monster that's been added in DoomII is a meaningful addition to the game, including the Baron's weaker cousin.

 

Finally, I was starting to think no one will say this.

[GarrettChan]

1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Literally every monster that's been added in DoomII is a meaningful addition to the game

Revenants and Arch-viles are so meaningful in order to make a lot of players moan, haha.

 

Doom did a lot "dumb" things back then, such as the Nightmare! difficulty, and it seems rarely do people complain about that.