The DWmegawad Club plays: SKULLTIVERSE

[Pseudonaut]

Map28:

Well I'm not gonna do this one saveless, lol. The three big fights are the main source of difficulty, one for each big weapon (rocket launcher first, plasma gun next, then you finally get the BFG), and each of them is quite difficult to find a consistent strategy for. The hardest one for me is the YSK fight, where imps invade your personal space while you desperately need to use a few pillars as cover from multiple archviles in a setup that reminds me of Sunlust's Map19, "Blood Geometry". From what I can tell, the best strategy is to stay generally in the center so that you're close to the aforementioned pillars, occasionally venturing out for a megasphere, then staying toward the edges once the imps have almost finished spawning so you can move in a circle somewhat smoothly. At all times, you have to be holding the trigger down with the plasma gun so you're killing the imps that're in your way, but that won't stop you from taking plenty of damage and being constantly blocked. Overall, this map is just slightly harder than map26.

[cannonball]

MAP28 - “Void Hydroproccessing II” by Rivi the Warlock

Yeah I am walking away from the blue key fight on this one. 

This one is insane right off the bat, I actually dealt with the red key fight before I even considered taking the SSG and Chaingun, luckily there is enough rockets to do this. The Red key/RL fight isn't too bad once you clear enough of the monsters on one side. The Yellow key fight looked impossible at first glance, but I figured out the right strategy and left with 125% of my health remaining, just slowly move around the perimeter and tuck into a pillar if a far-side archvile lights you up. The fight in between was annoying, for a start the trigger for starting it would reveal a secret in many maps (Why is the switch obscured like this?), secondly the double archvile is avoidable by backing onto the other side of the very thin bridge and using the SSG from there. 

So we are left with the blue key, I am sure there must be a solution here, but a combination of a mass of cacodemons/PEs and the fact that most of your resources are scattered on the perimeter between pillars resulted in many deaths despite the biggest threats being extinguished. After around half an hour I simply gave up.

i retire knowing this is too much for me on UV and at this point it would be unfair to give a full overview of this map, however up to the blue key it was rather mixed, the start and the approach to the yellow key room are a little obnoxious, there are however some clever fights in here too.

[dei_eldren]

MAP29 - the World's End (HNTR, blind, pistol start w/ saves): K 100%, I 87%, S 66%, T 27:13

 

Spoiler

To be honest, i am a little bit disappointed in myself for having given up on MAP27...after seeing and reading about it, obviously my strategy in that room was simply poor, and on UV it was not even the hardest part of the level, as attested to for example by LadyMistDragon's 32 deaths elsewhere, and other reviews as well.  Maybe i have the unfortunate habit of at times throwing my hands in the air rather than taking stock and thinking, i had not even noticed there was a pause between the waves.  BUT, pistol start that level i won't, so for this playthrough that opportunity is now missed forever.  i don't regret missing MAP28 after reading everything about it above, and i'm glad to have pistol started this one so as not to have any undue advantage.

 

This map basically starts with something i've never seen in Doom before, ships! at a waterfront.  And how well it's all executed... fact is, i used to be somewhat prejudiced against reality being projected too much into Doom-maps, but have to yield and admit that conceptually that's not a problem, it's really more of a matter whether or not one likes the surroundings, simple as that, because this one was simply so well-made and so goodlooking, and so unusual a theme for a Doom-map, that who wouldn't like it?

 

It's a hot start, with hitscanners and Imps, but also, a rather annoyingly placed Aranchnotron high on an aft of a ship, basically being a bitch kill from the shallow water i'm running in.  Also, there are some cliffs upon which a Mancubus is perched.  It's hairy, and on first attempt, as i take some hits and just decide to look around before dying.  Second attempt with some foreknowledge, i manage a lot better, and after some time everyone including the Manc are dead, except for the Arachnotron.  There are some crags running upon which leads to the ship, as there's no convenient direction to kill her from without wasting a lot of ammo, and happily there is available a RL to blast her away with.

Then it's down to the cabin, where there's some Chaingunners, a Hell Knight and Lost Souls, in a very tight space.  i run out of shells and bullets, blasting the last LS with a rocket.  Whilst i wouldn't want to it be so all the time, maps that have a tight but fair ammo balance, meaning, when it generally feels like ammo is running out, not having wasted it, without ever actually doing so, are very skilled creations, and i admire it.  There's also a secret Soul Sphere here, which i didn't bother finding, as toward the end of the level, there was quite enough of health around to be at full health at the end, after the slaughter-scenes.

 

From the ship, the gate to the next area is opened, and the preliminaries are now over, as while collecting some rockets and health, comes a minor inconvenience of a surprise ambush of three spawning Revenants.  But that's before the first of the main battles.  Pressing the switch to open up a wall, there's an attack of quite a few Revenants, Pinkies, and an Arachnotron.  i die once, first, and second try goes well enough for me to save, thinking that i've killed most of them, but a couple Revs are still alive and it takes me a couple tries to avoid their homing missiles, and notice the welcome Megasphere, health being at 19%.  After that it's no trouble at all.

 

There's an ample supply of health and ammo, plasma included, plasma was actually already on offer for this fight, and i don't know if i should've used that instead of doggedly sticking to rockets for the Revs, possibly.  There's a little cage with the YSK door, inside of which is a switch.  There's also another switch, readily availably, pressing which obviously would bring about the next wave, possibly of all remaining 48 demons, making the last fight a bona fide slaughter-scene.  Except pressing it only lowers a visible elevator in a wooden structure up ahead.  No enemies, no threats.  In there i find some armor bonuses, and a handy little Soul Sphere to be saved for the end, but not what i later conclude likely should have been there, the YSK.  i wander about the map for a while, before concluding the YSK is missing.  And then, conjure it up.

 

Indeed, all the rest of the enemies are then spawned in.  Thankfully, the assortment does not include Arch-Viles.  As the pandemonium ensues, i concentrate on the Revenants blasting their grouping with plasma, of which there is no shortness of supply, and luckily the others, mostly Hell Knights, Imps and Pinkies, leave me mostly to it, happily infighting (presumably).  After the Revenants have been dealt with, i can focus on the rest, and it's actually a really enjoyable fight over the whole area, now pretty much safe to clean up, and i kill the last Lost Souls just before victoriously picking up the BSK.  Later i notice that i had actually missed the BFG9000, right next to where the fight began, where i was circling the Revenants.

 

The penultimate map, by a new author to me, 7Soul, turned out to be conceptually novel and visually striking (who on earth would expect these ships...?), and even if the last fight could be called at least slaughter-lite, combat-wise it remains fun and very manageable - i actually didn't die once in the last fight, and after the fact i'm left with the impression of it all having been innocuous.  The ships at the shore were  and well made, and the many ships in the void of the sea were rather beautiful and atmospheric.  There was also some visual details in the map, such as the scene of impaled people at the top of the cliff, that set the mood and told the story.  Thanks to ViolentBeetle for his suggestion take a look at the last levels.

 

 

Ranked:

Spoiler

MAP15

MAP18

MAP12

MAP06

MAP01

MAP10

MAP14

MAP23

MAP03

MAP08

MAP29

MAP04

MAP19

MAP31

MAP25

MAP16

MAP26

MAP11

MAP02

MAP21

MAP22

MAP09

MAP05

MAP07

MAP27

MAP17

MAP20

MAP13

MAP24

 

[TJG1289]

GZDoom/Blind/UV/Continuous/Saves

Map 28 - Void Hydroproccessing II - Rivi The Warlock

100% kills and secrets

Time: 16:21

Deaths: 14? Probably more

 

Playing continuous won't save you here. This is easily the hardest level in the WAD. Pretty much every fight in this map can kill you quickly. You get that impression when you shoot the switch in front of you to start and you're surrounded by like at least 6 hell knights. Your first instinct may be to run away to the opening in front, but that just attracts a bunch of knights, imps, and revs, and the water you're in will lower. If you're pistol-starting, you'll need to go this, as there's a chaingun and a SSG at the top of 2 different lifts around here, but this will spawn a rev at the top of each, and chaingunners on the pillars above. I died once before saying "Screw it" and brought out my BFG. I'm honestly not sure how to do the red key fight without it. You get a rocket launcher and a ton of rockets, plus a mega armor and 2 soul spheres. Should be enough for whatever's about to happen, right? Nope. Grab the key, and get ready for a ton of hell knights and revs to teleport in at the 2 other sides of this t-arena, and for cacos to teleport in behind you. Again, how you're supposed to do this with just rockets, I have no idea, since you will get swarmed easily, and will have to deal with face rockets. Maybe you can escape eventually, use the red key to lower the bars, and run away, so it's more like an endurance test? I don't know, but I did have to BFG a few times, and I died 3 time I believe.

 

Next up, we have a small library, with some imps, revs, shotgunners, and 2 archies. One is behind the wall you lower by shooting the switch, the other teleports in right after back at the red door. Died 3 times here too, but on my 4th attempts, the teleporting archie took a while to show up. You'll notice walking into the next room, that a bookcase will lower. Ride it back up, and jump through the second window to grab a secret backpack. Back up here, grab the plasma and get ready for the yellow skull fight. I had a feeling this was the imp fight alluded to in ViolentBeetle's post earlier, and I was right. Though I thought this would be just an easy "hold down fire with the plasma to win" battle of attrition, then a wall lowered with a bunch of archies. Now I see why there's pillars here. Eventually, the wall raises again, and the opposite lowers with even more archies. You have to wait until the lift back at the entrance raises so you can use it to escape. Don't focus on the archies, they'll get crushed later. This is a tough fight, even with 2 megaspheres, just because you need to carve your way through imps in order to get out of sight of the archies, lest you get singed. I died I think another 3 times here. I forgot to go through another door in the library until after this, which takes you to some cells and a berserk, which is always welcomed.

 

Finally, through the yellow skull door, you can strafe-jump to the BFG, and find a lot of ammo for everything. There's a switch that will allow access to the blue skull, and unleashes the final fight. 4 cybies appear; 2 up with you, and 2 down in the red skull arena. But that's not all. Not a cloud, but a hurricane of cacos and pain elementals will converge on you. This fight killed me the most, with maybe like 5 deaths, maybe more? My strat was to quickly 2-shot the cybies up with me, then hold down fire with the BFG on the flyers. This is very tough, as there's a ton to kill here, but it eventually worked. There's enough cell ammo to get you through this. Once there's only a few things left, switch to the chaingun and SSG. Some monsters will get stuck in the library, but you can rocket them through the windows. Once all the flyers were gone, I jumped back down to the red skull arena to take out the final 2 cybies. That was it for kills, but after, I went back to the blue skull arena to find the megasphere secret had opened. Idk what triggered it. Maybe jumping down? Idk, all I know is I have 200% health and ammo for map 29!

 

Very, very tough level. It's probably Sunlust tier, but I haven't played it, so idk. If it is, then I should be able to get through that eventually! Map looks really nice. Reminds me a lot of Water Spirit in theme, but not as decorative. MIDI is pretty cool. Got 3 talented MIDI authors on that one! 

[DJVCardMaster]

MAP28 - "Void Hydroproccessing II"- Rivi the Warlock (64%K/94%I/50%S):

What the actual fuck did I just play? I have to switch from University's Java projects that can't compile because the enviroment is crap, to doing additions to floating point numbers in binary, and then to this. University, as I said, tilted me so hard this last weeks, but this just personally offended me, and I don't believe cancel culture, nor I care, but this should be cancelation subject. A good looking map shadowed by how fucky the gameplay is. A slaughterfest beyond believe right from the start, with a HEAVY problem with you getting constantly infinitely-talled to death, Every battle is a struggle, but hey, until the red key, it was somewhat doable. After this point, there is no room to eliminate the horde of knights and revenants, your best strategy, kill the revenants via infighting/rockets as quickly as possible, and try to carry hell nights into one corner, then it's easier to dodge (nothing compared to the rest). The map throws everything at the sinkhole at the imp/AV miniarena, where you'll have to spray and pray while zig-zagging accross the room whenever the archviles are there to attack you. This room just killed the deal for me, and it wasn't even the full picture. After that, a final fight comes in the form of BFG-spamming to death 3 cyberdemons, BUT DO IT QUICKLY, as the biggest cacoswarm of the history of what I have seen non-ironically, is coming from all cardinal points to fuck your ass. This is it. I couldn't take no more. Not to mention getting infinitely-talled to death by cacodemons making the level an "invisible" labyrinth is also not a fun idea.
How to beat a map as fucky as this? Well, becoming a fucky person. See, I tried to get the BK and I could not wait anymore for the walls to lower, so I decided to get as close as possible, and (thanks broken Doom-Engine), I could clip through collisions to grab it, and run straight to the exit portal, BUT, cacodemons fucked me to death before reaching the exit. As I was trying to save-spam again, the map suddenly finishes, YES, my corpse made it to the end. And I felt so gratified, that felt exactly like a middle finger to the map's author, a well deserved one. 60 deaths with save-spam are enough, this is not even UV, so I don't want to imagine what it would be.
I did not play more than a single map of Sunlust/similars, but this is not good even for slaughtermaps, I've felt that this wasn't actually good gameplay design from a game-dev perspective. This is just kaizo gameplay.
This made me so offended, that I've felt like I was paying taxes directly to Rivi's wallet, just for living and playing Doom, thanks for nothing, I have to pay high taxes already.


Deaths: 310 (HMP - PrBoom+)

Order of preference:
 

Spoiler

 

MAP15
MAP19

MAP10
MAP27
MAP31
MAP09
MAP13
MAP23
MAP21
MAP11

MAP05
MAP26
MAP25
MAP12
MAP22
MAP16
MAP24

MAP03

MAP01
MAP20
MAP14
MAP04
MAP07
MAP32
MAP08
MAP02
MAP06
MAP18
MAP28
MAP17

 

One day I'll have my revenge when I decide to go nuts on a community project, just remember to specify "no slaughtermaps" or else, I'll have the last laught.
  

Insert "I'm tired of being the good guy" meme.

[rouge_means_red]

Creator of map 29 here, I feel like a fool as I placed a yellow key as "hard-only" so anything below UV is unbeatable. There is a fix on the project's page if you aren't playing on UV: 

 

 

Sorry for the inconvenience

 

 

[DisgruntledPorcupine]

MAP28: "Void Hydroprocessing II" by RiviTheWarlock

UV, pistol start, 2 saves

100% kills, 1/2 secrets

 

Here's the alleged bigboy map of the wad. The visuals are that of a flooded castle with stained glass windows, with the interior having bookshelves. The outer perimeter is lined with floating blue torches (perhaps unintentional according to a previous writeup?) and the blue key area has some flashy-looking blue pillars that almost seem to call out danger. I love the way the map begins too, you shoot the gargoyle in front of you and are immediately surrounded by hell knights, and running forward toward the stone platforms causes the water level in the area to lower. If you are pistol starting, not making it across the pillars to a gun is almost certain death.

 

Anyway, hot take I know, but this level is very hard. For me the difficulty was very much concentrated on the red key fight, which I saved before and after. I have no idea how many attempts that encounter took me, but it felt like I was stuck on it forever and could never get a remotely consistent strategy down. Just spray rockets into one side of the HKs and revenants and hope you carve out enough room for yourself. Downright brutal fight and easily the hardest in the wad for me. The yellow key fight was very cool and called Sunlust to mind. The small area is swarmed with imps as archviles are revealed on one side of the arena. Then, every few seconds, that side of the arena will close to reveal more archviles on the other side, and so on. This was by far the easiest of the key fights, but I always enjoy gimmicky archvile usages like this one.

 

The blue skull key fight is downright insanity. It actually didn't cause me nearly as much grief as the red key fight, but in terms of flash it can't be beat. You have 4 cyberdemons to deal with, and a crazy amount of cacodemons and pain elementals. By far the toughest part of this one is the pain elementals, there's almost nothing that can be done to stop them from flooding the entire arena in lost souls, and the infinite height of the lost souls ended my run on a few occasions. Lucky for you though, you have a BFG and a ridiculous amount of cells to make use of here. I simply took out the two cyberdemons that spawn on my level right off the bat before the other enemies have an opportunity to cause trouble, then I stuck around in the top area to thin the hordes until I got lower on health and had to seek a more peaceful area. The two cybies at the bottom level tend to get mixed up in all sorts of infighting, which is another mercy of this fight, one of them did die to the cacos in my successful run. 

 

Definitely lives up to its reputation as the hardest in the set, feels like it's on a different tier from the rest of the set in that regard. Qualitywise it's pretty solid, fun and compact slaughter.

[DFF]

MAP27 - Last Ruin by Muuni
Another personal favorite from the WAD, I adore this map. The visuals are awesome, and the whole design: the nightmarish visuals, the earthly brown colors, and the semi-realistic building designs combined with the MIDI still makes me think of Blood, something that is always welcome in my book. Thanks to the large and impressive visuals of the exterior map and semi non-linear map design, this is another map that feels much larger than its real playable size. Its a rather tricky map with some great fights that require good monster management, ammo conservation, and quick thinking. It was difficulty but felt great. The only part I was not a fan of was the teleport closet room. Its not bad, its a clever design and require some critical (or very cheezable) decisions from the player to conquer, and nothing about it is unforeseeable or too dickish, but just feels a bit cramped and maybe RNG dependent? probably not heavily but it wasn't exactly my cup of tea.

Probably one of the most memorable maps from the set along with map15 or map18. but also one of my favorite to play.

MAP28 - Void Hydroprocessing II by Rivi the Warlock

Scariest thing about this map, is that the title suggests the existence of a Void Hydroprocessing I. Jokes aside this is an absolutely brutal map that requires the most from the player to survive. Sadly I admit i had to cheat in order to beat this map, and not for a lack of trying. I did save scum a lot, but i made it halfway through the blue skull cacoswarm before I had to resort to godmode. I had missed the BFG thinking it was a secret or accessed later but was grabbable before the whole fight, and once the swarm moved it it was nigh impossible to grab. Best way to describe this map is suffocation, or more aptly for the map, drowning. Majority of the fights are very horde oriented, so the player will often have to micromanage health, ammo, movement, and infighting just to stay above water. Id say most of the combat was well balanced for the difficulty, but the only one that stood out as really clever or interesting was the imp pit with the arch-viles and the swapping security wall. This also was probably the easiest fight for me, only dying about 10-20 times where the others easily took 25-50 attempts, granted these are using saves. The final fight was undoable without the BFG as i was constantly struggling to not get overwhelmed hiding in the library. Its oppressive, there is very little health to be found outside arena starts, and often the height issues and dealing with infinitely tall boom monsters caused very many deaths aswell, but it is well done.

Visually the map feels a bit aloof, without much light contrast and a lot of mixed texture themes present (the metal and tech lights kinda clash with the more general marble & brick design). The map design suggests this is some sort of ancient library attached to an aqueduct lost in space, but its not leaning strongly on that visual. Its fine for presentation, this map obviously being very much a gameplay first map which it does well, but thematically is not as solid as a map like 18, 12, or 9. Those being other examples of maps that focus more on instanced curated fights or mapwide combat, but also have string visual identities.

Im not one to get frustrated with Doom unless I have to replay large map sections due to a bum save or some other error, so i did enjoy triumphing over the combat when I could. Personally i'd vote this the hardest in the set so thats a bonus.

[KeaganDunn]

3 hours ago, DJVCardMaster said:

MAP28 - "Void Hydroprocessing II"- Rivi the Warlock (64%K/94%I/50%S):

What the actual fuck did I just play? I have to switch from University's Java projects that can't compile because the environment is crap, to doing additions to floating point numbers in binary, and then to this. University, as I said, tilted me so hard this last weeks, but this just personally offended me, and I don't believe cancel culture, nor I care, but this should be cancelation subject.

...

This made me so offended, that I've felt like I was paying taxes directly to Rivi's wallet, just for living and playing Doom, thanks for nothing, I have to pay high taxes already.


Deaths: 310 (HMP - PrBoom+)

 

Counting your deaths while playing Doom, especially when they are this numerous, is probably not healthy.

 

But in general...is this post not...kinda rude?

[LadyMistDragon]

Final Thoughts

 

Skulltiverse was a megawad I had absolutely no expectations about going on. I knew the 'spritual successor to Hellevator" nonsense, and vaguely aware that project received some hype before I joined Doomworld, but sometimes, these things end up largely mediocre. I did read some stuff about how the maps had nice detailing. Despite the size restriction aspect sounding a bit like Zone 400 from last month, it seemed worth giving a shot.

 

And I was blown away. In the fine tradition of megawads such as Going Down, Violent Beetle's project successfully delivered a series of high-octane and beautifully-rendered experiences that make this well worth playing. I'd go so far as to say this is probably leagues better than 'Love in a Hellevator,' though I have yet to play it. If someone doesn't at least mention this in the Cacowards thread, I'll be very sad.

 

Seriously, the way the mapping talent pooled their collective efforts and utilized the boundaries given to them ranks among the best vanilla experiences. Well, it uses Boom gimmicks, but you know what I mean. Outside of monthly CPs and such, this might just be one of the best of the year for its limited scope. It truly seems like the creative juices of the mappers were on fire. No, it's not quite as good as 180 Minutes Por Vivre because size limitations have to show somewhere. But seeing what was accomplished, it feels like there should be one megawad like this released annually, in addition to your Interceptions and your Micro Slaughters and.....

 

Map list (starting with favorite)

 

Map 15

Map 10

Map 27

Map 21

Map 16

Map 29

Map 19

Map 25

Map 28

Map 14

Map 23

Map 17

Map 20

Map 22

Map 04

Map 11

Map 07

Map 05

Map 24

Map 12

Map 06

Map 13

Map 01

Map 09

Map 26

Map 18( I liked his custom music oddly.enough)

Map 03

Map 02

 

 

PS kinda seems like it might win, so I'll try following just to see if it's worth playing.

 

 

                                           

Edited September 29, 2021 by LadyMistDragon

[DJVCardMaster]

5 minutes ago, Dunn (& Dunn) said:

 

Counting your deaths while playing Doom, especially when they are this numerous, is probably not healthy.

 

But in general...is this post not...kinda rude?

Not really, just ironic, I apologize for whenever I sound like that in advance.

[RiviTheWarlock]

MAP 28 & SKULLTIVERSE POST-MORTEM

 

After seeing all the responses about map 28 on this post, and being inspired by similar postmortems like the ones for Sucker-Punch 1 & 2, I decided to write out a little piece to go along with the map.

 

Void Hydroprocessing II is just a bigger, badder, (and harder) version of Void Hydroprocessing I. Originally made for @Jimmy's 15 Years a Doomer Jimmunity Project, it was my first attempt at a void themed level, with a heavy focus on rocket-launcher oriented gameplay and high-body count fights. I had to do some Jimnastics to complete Void Hydroproccessing I as I had 5 exams that week and I literally completed it the night before the deadline. With a week of time instead of the 15 hours I had for Void Hydroprocessing I, I wanted to continue with the idea while building on the original concept with what I had learned from making the first one. The first fight was my first and favorite idea for the level. I wanted to make a fight that forced you to stay on your feet and get into the action. The lowering water forces you to run straight to one of the weapons, and if you wait on the pillar too long you'll be trapped by the monster's height. The yellow key fight was also a fairly early idea. I enjoy it when mappers use archviles in an interesting way, a good example being the Dance Floor from Skulltiverse's predecessor. Once you know the gimmick I personally find the fight to be fairly doable on UV, on HMP the amount of imps is the same, but they come in more slowly. The yellow key fight was not my favorite idea but was my favorite fight in execution. The red key fight is probably the map I struggled the most balancing, I had people complete it first try while others died there eternally. I am somewhat happy with the red key fight, but if I was going to remake the map this would be the first I would change, either through balancing or with a different idea. Ironically enough the final fight was made on the very last day of time I had, but I like it better than the red-key fight. I was very focused on space for this one, where you need infighting with cybers and clever BFG shots to get enough room from the relentless cyber-horde. My main regret is the bookshelf switch, which I thought was a cool detail to add to the castle vibe, but even with me cranking the light all the way up on it people still struggled to find it.

 

Let's address the elephant in the room: the map is immensely hard (at least by many forum members' standards), like way too hard for this project. I legitimately thought @ViolentBeetle was going to reject it after I saw their initial reaction. I have a friend who I will not name in this post who had their map rejected for being too hard in Hellivator, though take this with a grain of salt because I've never asked Beetle about this. When I made this map I was under the impression that since this was the final episode and had a void theme (a theme I associate with hard wads like Sunlust, Dimensions, Sunder, etc.) I went in wanting to make the hardest map I could. Void Hydroprocessing II completely dunks on my previous hardest map (Fragor Portum MAP05) in terms of difficulty, and that was fully intended. Despite this difficulty, I am appreciative that (most) people who have reviewed the map have been fair to it despite the difficulty (and giving me a good laugh otherwise). I was surprised about the praise I got about its visuals, I didn't think highly of them personally, but it sometimes can be hard to appreciate what you made when comparing it to many modern works with extremely strong visuals.

This post is a little bit self-aggrandizing, to be honest, but I learned a lot about myself as a mapper from making this map, and I thought others might appreciate a look into the creation of the map. Many of the difficulties with development were caused by the fact that I am simply not a very efficient mapper, which is why behind the scenes I've mainly focused on speed mapping and practicing, and hopefully, I will have my speed map project done as part of the ever-impending Nanowadmo.

TLDR; I enjoyed making my hardest map and thought was going to be rejected, but I guess anything goes when MAP06 manages to get in. (No hatred against the maps maker, everyone starts somewhere)

[LadyMistDragon]

31 minutes ago, RiviTheWarlock said:

MAP 28 & SKULLTIVERSE POST-MORTEM

 

After seeing all the responses about map 28 on this post, and being inspired by similar postmortems like the ones for Sucker-Punch 1 & 2, I decided to write out a little piece to go along with the map.

 

Void Hydroprocessing II is just a bigger, badder, (and harder) version of Void Hydroprocessing I. Originally made for @Jimmy's 15 Years a Doomer Jimmunity Project, it was my first attempt at a void themed level, with a heavy focus on rocket-launcher oriented gameplay and high-body count fights. I had to do some Jimnastics to complete Void Hydroproccessing I as I had 5 exams that week and I literally completed it the night before the deadline. With a week of time instead of the 15 hours I had for Void Hydroprocessing I, I wanted to continue with the idea while building on the original concept with what I had learned from making the first one. The first fight was my first and favorite idea for the level. I wanted to make a fight that forced you to stay on your feet and get into the action. The lowering water forces you to run straight to one of the weapons, and if you wait on the pillar too long you'll be trapped by the monster's height. The yellow key fight was also a fairly early idea. I enjoy it when mappers use archviles in an interesting way, a good example being the Dance Floor from Skulltiverse's predecessor. Once you know the gimmick I personally find the fight to be fairly doable on UV, on HMP the amount of imps is the same, but they come in more slowly. The yellow key fight was not my favorite idea but was my favorite fight in execution. The red key fight is probably the map I struggled the most balancing, I had people complete it first try while others died there eternally. I am somewhat happy with the red key fight, but if I was going to remake the map this would be the first I would change, either through balancing or with a different idea. Ironically enough the final fight was made on the very last day of time I had, but I like it better than the red-key fight. I was very focused on space for this one, where you need infighting with cybers and clever BFG shots to get enough room from the relentless cyber-horde. My main regret is the bookshelf switch, which I thought was a cool detail to add to the castle vibe, but even with me cranking the light all the way up on it people still struggled to find it.

 

Let's address the elephant in the room: the map is immensely hard (at least by many forum members' standards), like way too hard for this project. I legitimately thought @ViolentBeetle was going to reject it after I saw their initial reaction. I have a friend who I will not name in this post who had their map rejected for being too hard in Hellivator, though take this with a grain of salt because I've never asked Beetle about this. When I made this map I was under the impression that since this was the final episode and had a void theme (a theme I associate with hard wads like Sunlust, Dimensions, Sunder, etc.) I went in wanting to make the hardest map I could. Void Hydroprocessing II completely dunks on my previous hardest map (Fragor Portum MAP05) in terms of difficulty, and that was fully intended. Despite this difficulty, I am appreciative that (most) people who have reviewed the map have been fair to it despite the difficulty (and giving me a good laugh otherwise). I was surprised about the praise I got about its visuals, I didn't think highly of them personally, but it sometimes can be hard to appreciate what you made when comparing it to many modern works with extremely strong visuals.

This post is a little bit self-aggrandizing, to be honest, but I learned a lot about myself as a mapper from making this map, and I thought others might appreciate a look into the creation of the map. Many of the difficulties with development were caused by the fact that I am simply not a very efficient mapper, which is why behind the scenes I've mainly focused on speed mapping and practicing, and hopefully, I will have my speed map project done as part of the ever-impending Nanowadmo.

TLDR; I enjoyed making my hardest map and thought was going to be rejected, but I guess anything goes when MAP06 manages to get in. (No hatred against the maps maker, everyone starts somewhere)

The only flaw (other than the undophstication if the 'lkitchen sink' combat approach (which is subjective as fuck, but nevermind that) was

 maybe not having cells in the second-water logged area where the red key was. Running around the whole level to get back to the BSK area was undoubtedly annoying, and part of the reason why I ended up putting the map to bed temporarily.

[ViolentBeetle]

5 hours ago, RiviTheWarlock said:

MAP 28 & SKULLTIVERSE POST-MORTEM

I enjoyed the map a lot, I was just, at the time, extremely frustrated by it. However, I've got convinced that for its placement it was fine. Later I finally managed to beat it.

When starting it I wanted to have as many different styles as possible in this project, including very hard map, but just wanted to discuss making it easier. Eventually I figured out mostly how to deal with it.

[Book Lord]

 

MAP 29 – World’s End by 7Soul

PrBoom+ 2.5.1.4, UV, Continuous, blind run w/saves

 

Our peregrinations directed by the unpredictable Skullgate brought us to what the ancient navigators believed to be the end of the world: an enormous waterfall marking the impassable limit between the sea and the endless void, where adrift ships and their crew would be lost forever. World’s End was also the last chapter of the Skulltiverse voyage, and the author decided to focus on thematic combat and adventurous atmosphere, instead of arenas of which we had enough on MAP28.

Spoiler

The music immediately set an epic mood, as I looked around and realised that before me stood the shipwreck site of an entire fleet. Doom modelling capabilities did not allow for perfect detailing of the wreckage, so it was hard to tell if they were Spanish galleons or Viking drakkars. I must also observe that the total blackness of the void makes the coloured objects look very dull and fake, especially the ships outside of the playing area. @7Soul’s inventiveness made up for many limitations though, and what this map could not achieve in visual beauty it compensated with an interesting progression and fun combat.

Spoiler

The level was not large by any means, but every single inch found good use. I especially enjoyed the part when I temporarily conquered the deck of the BSK ship, then noticed that there was a hatch leading to the cargo hold of another vessel. A switch inside lowered the skull marked bars and opened the other half of the level, where fierce groups of hellspawn lay in waiting. There were quite a few Revenants to reckon with, but things got more relaxed since there was always a place to fall back and reorganise. This statement could summarise all encounters, including the last big closet revealing a ship with two Cyberdemons, one of them sent to guard the now available BSK at the other side of the map, along with many other baddies.

Spoiler

I liked how World’s End was organised: it achieved a nice balance between combat and exploration. Weapons and ammo were provided exactly when needed, so pistol start would not be a problem. The ships falling off the edge of the world were a bold thematic choice for a Doom map and the less exacting gameplay made me appreciate the layout and the simple secrets. A breather before the final showdown, but a classy and funny one.

[Lorenz0]

MAP29 - World's End

hmp/continuous

 

There's a chance it's just me being dumb, but I honestly think this map sucks at communicating progress. I felt lost at numerous occasions. Firstly, when I initially jumped onto the ship containing the blue skullkey, I thought the gap in the bars next to the key is where you need to go, but that just loops back into the spawn area. Turns out you have to jump from the side of the ship onto a different one, that's not immediately noticeable, since it's located lower than this one.

Then I thought the wooden planks outside the ship lead to more progress, but no, that's just a very obvious secret. And another one on the other side. But okay, those examples are not big deals.

Then after killing some monsters I found myself next to a yellow door and a switch. I assumed that the switch would lead me to the yellow key and that would be it, but no, it just lowers a lift leading to a small room with a soulsphere and nothing else. So what now? I tried exploring all available areas, found another secret and a mega armor hidden away in a corner. So where is the yellow key? Who knows. I took a noclip tour throughout the whole map and didn't even see it once, let alone find a way to get to it. I ended the map by noclipping through the yellow door to activate the final fight, killed some monsters and exited.

 

When your secrets are substantially easier to find than the way forward, there's something seriously wrong with your map. This kind of lacking signposting seriously made me enjoy this map a lot less than I should have, since I think the fights are pretty decent, and the visuals are really good with all those ships floating around. That's a seriously cool aesthetic, but doesn't make up for the frustrating layout.

 

Order of preference:

Spoiler

MAP19

MAP09

MAP15

MAP21

MAP27

MAP11

MAP07

MAP10

MAP23

MAP25
MAP04

MAP28
MAP05

MAP13

MAP22

MAP17

MAP12

MAP26
MAP01

MAP24

MAP14

MAP29
MAP03

MAP20

MAP16
MAP02

MAP18
MAP08
MAP06

 

[Book Lord]

2 minutes ago, Lorenz0 said:

So where is the yellow key?

 

If you check the thread, the author acknowledges a mistake in flagging the yellow key for hard difficulties only, so the map is actually flawed and impossible to complete on Hurt me Plenty and lower difficulties.

 

That's not the first flawed yellow key in Doom history, as even the IWADS can tell. Pharaoh's multiplayer-only YK is legendary and a much more unbelievable oversight. Time constrained projects are ok, but sometimes errors may elude playtesting (especially if unnoticeable on UV).

[ViolentBeetle]

10 minutes ago, Lorenz0 said:

So where is the yellow key? Who knows.

Unfortunately there was an error in the map where key was flagged for hard difficulty only. The fix was posted in this topic, guess you didn't see it.

Sorry about it. Those things slip past us sometimes.

[Lorenz0]

Okay, that makes more sense then. Very unfortunate mistake.

[FistMarine]

MAP28: Void Hydroprocessing II
Sorry but I didn't enjoy this map. Although all my deaths came from the hardest fights located after grabbing each key, that doesn't mean the rest fights (such as the ones at beginning) are any easier. On a continuous run, having the weapons, ammo and armor gathered from previous maps should greatly help. But even then there were some situations that seemed hopeless...at least for a couple minutes.
To me the part that caused the most deaths (around 12-15 or so) were actually from the red key! How in the FUCKING HELL are you supposed to do that one easily? EVEN with carefully grabbing the supplies (except on occasions I accidentally grabbed the second soulsphere from dodging/running at near 200% health) and shooting rockets into those teleporters as soon as I grabbed the red key (to have a head start and cause a bit of damage to those few teleporting monsters), I have no fucking idea how you are supposed to do this shit. Even with having around 100 cells (enough for two BFG blasts) to break through the closing walls, I still had trouble getting through this mess, probably most times I died I was close to do this fight, still had like 20-30 enemies left alive.
I understand what I was supposed to do and had to redo the fight a few times with the previous save because sometimes I saved in a hopeless situation, hence the rather high deaths achieved in this room. The revenant's homing rockets are the absolute worst in situations like these and a pain to dodge. I did make some infighting going on but at same time I get ambushed by cacodemons from behind, completely blocking you at times. I find the usage of cacos here completely unnecessary. It is already difficult to deal with 100 (?) or so hell knights + revenants coming from TWO directions.
Ultimately I managed to overcome the challenge with a bit of saving in middle of fight (I used all 8 save slots on this level, with backup saves made from previous levels in a different folder, just in case, plus a backup save after each successful battle in case things go wrong and need an earlier save to continue) and eventually the RNG decided to let me win, once all the revenants died and there were 20 or so knights/cacos left, it was a breeze.

The next part, you have to kill a few shotgun guys, imps, revenants and two archviles try to ambush you at same time. I managed to not take any damage and have luck on my side this time, so I kept my health/armor intact since the last fight. Don't worry, there's more archviles in next room. You have to drop down and well, at least I realized quickly (after first 1-2 deaths), how to deal with this when grabbing yellow skull key. Still died around 5 or so times here but the strategy is simple. Kill those fucking imps quickly (BFG or plasma, depending whether you play continuous or not, as you are given many cell packs) and then immediately take cover from those archviles when they get revealed, look out for which side it happens and take cover behind a pillar and even if you must, better endure the imp projectiles because you have no choice here. Even with 200% health and armor you will die quickly if you expose yourself to the archies. So I made use of both megaspheres (one time I had a bullshit death where I died on top of a megasphere, since I didn't actually grabbed first megasphere, I waited for my 97% health and 57% armor to get closer to dying to make full use of it, so that time I got killed by imps that blocked my way) and eventually I won and grabbed the last megasphere, killed last imp and last archviles. I will say that this part was creative and I didn't get angry as much but still, it's quite luck based and it might take some time to figure but to me it was the easiest of the 3 big challenges.

Now for the next part, the so-called hardest part (which I didn't find the hardest). As mentioned, you have to fight FOUR fucking cyberdemons and a massive swarm of cacos and a few pain elementals thrown into the mix. At this point you are given the BFG (officially) and so much cell ammo that you are free to use the BFG but still watch for the amount of cells you have. You are also given a soulsphere and blue armor, which are obviously best saved for when you actually need them, providing you got there with plenty of health and armor (just like me). And some medkits in corners, that really saved my ass later when I was running out of health.
Upon pressing the switch for the blue key, I killed the first two cybers quickly that appeared. First one no problem, second one hit me once with a rocket but it only took almost half of my health/armor, so I repaired that lost health with the soulsphere (later I grabbed the blue armor when the current one ran out). But then I was getting swarmed from cacos, lost souls, etc. I had the BFG ready and fired it and made it so I was doing as much damage as I could in most cases, while managing my cells and health. I still died a few times but since I saved mid fight on two different slots, it wasn't the impossible fight I thought it was. I also got killed a few times from infinite height from cacos or whatever and even those two other cyberdemons got me 2-3 times when I went to hide in that library. I don't remember how many tries it took but it was around 5 to 7 tries, still nowhere near as bad as I thought it would be.

Eventually I succeeded and had full ammo on all weapons and 100% health. I went to look for the second secret, the megasphere (I found the backpack secret earlier after red card by riding a book shelf and jumping through a window, while the megasphere secret is on a blue pillar that is revealed by shooting on a switch, look for a hidden switch located on one of those walls in red key room, it can be hit from two locations, check the screenshot to see the exact location, it's in the left of that picture if you look closely, where I got 200% health/armor) so that at very least, after this shitfest, I start next level fully maxed. So I get something from completing this fucking annoying map (without cheating!), just save/load a bunch of times until you will win!
I don't have the exact amount of times I died since I lost track but I will count as 25. Maybe 28 deaths would have worked better (heh) but I don't feel like adding extra deaths that may not have even happened. Still 25 is a LOT and it's definitely the HARDEST level so far, but I didn't have as bad experience as others.
Still, fuck that red key trap so much (the cacos were completely unnecessary IMO) and hope the map gets slightly rebalanced if there will be updates planned.
Overall, no I didn't enjoy the map but at the very least I appreciate how it looked and the music which was great. And some fights felt satisfying to pull off successfully but I think this map desperately needed an INVULNERABILITY SPHERE placed somewhere, in a secret area at least. Either for the red or blue key ambush. Possibly a bit further away instead of being given immediately, so that you can still get some use out of it if you know how and where to save it.
I also want to make myself clear that I am NOT a DoomGod by any means and I consider myself pretty good at Doom, I would certainly put myself above average (since I know what to do in most situations) but definitely nowhere near as good as the known veterans, speedrunners and such who are able to complete any map given, by pistol starting and not saving it.
Anyway, can't wait to finish the megawad! It's been really stressful and I never expected it to be this hard. Next map please!

 

MAP29: World's End
Sweet! I managed to do this one without dying, even if I played a bit poorly at times. I didn't get hit at all in beginning until I got to part when the revenants first showed up and then... I keep getting hit by revenant homing missiles and even got down to 5% or 10% health at one point (probably when the archviles showed up, though thankfully they didn't blast me) and managed to survive and grab stimpacks/medkits and soulsphere secrets. It was quite tense at times and had to put the BFG to good use.
Once I was done with clearing everyone and spamming BFG, there were 2 cybers I carefully took them out. The first one I simply killed with shotgun and chaingun from the safe place (around where blue armor is found) because no way I'm risking the 2-shot BFG trick, wanted to have a clean no-death run in this level if I managed to get so far without dying, so I went with the slower hiding approach. And then once done, kill the second cyber on the ship with rockets. After 30 or so rockets, done! Grab everything before leaving the map and prepare for the final level!
I found all secrets myself (don't know how to explain their locations but they are easy to find, just look on ledges, corners, etc) and managed to save a soulsphere and blue armor for the end, so I get 200% health and armor for next level. Considering I ended up grabbing that megasphere by accident at one time (and even reloaded once because of that but I still ended up grabbing it anyway during that last ambush and all that was just to refill my armor, so it was a bit wasted).
Overall, not bad! I really needed a break after the previous level and this one was MUCH easier than MAP28, in fact I would say it was one of the easier E3 levels as it was fairly straightforward but also helped very much by starting out the level fully maxed out. The RNG was also in my favor MOSTLY, as things could have been much worse (I wonder how I didn't get hit by any cyber rockets, maybe the invisibility must have helped at last fight while I was running from one side to another). Maybe the maps I completed without dying are in fact redemption to make up for those maps I died lots of times, such as MAP28. :P
Anyway, I wonder what's going to be in the final level...

 

MAP30: An Eye for an Eye
Final level time! Since it's not 30th September yet, I will not spoil much of it. It is a combination of a slaughter map with some tricks in it and an IOS at the end of it. That's all I'm gonna say, as I don't feel like writing much anymore. Died around 6 times in it but it wasn't as bad as MAP28 or some earlier levels. There's a few cyberdemons and the spider mastermind also returns even if once. Good luck beating this level, you will need it!
Oh and also one monster is missing despite killing everyone (all the non-IOS spawned demons), maybe the last monster didn't teleport into the level or something.

Two hints: A single secret present in the map (berserk) and at the IOS battle with the giant blue skull, try aiming at the eyes. ;)

Total Deaths: 82 (MAP09-MAP15, MAP31-MAP32, MAP17-MAP23, MAP26, MAP28, MAP30)
At least I think were around 80+, could have been anywhere between 80 and 85 but I no longer care and I am glad I'm done with it. Easily one of the hardest megawads I've ever played so far, since I'm not familiar with many recent releases and I keep seeing Sunlust mentioned, which I heard of it before (I know it's one of the HARDEST megawads) but I never played it before and I wonder if its difficulty is much harder than this megawad. And even not counting Sunlust, I'm sure HR, HR2, AV, KS and others are hard as well, all of which I only beat once a decade ago with a gameplay mod, probably Aeons of Death, which used to be my favorite randomizer mod and I keep using it with many megawads. So in those cases they don't count and I need to beat many megawads properly in PrBoom+ (or whatever recommended port was used for that wad) to get the intended experience.

Either way, I should be able to handle MOST community content, as I have yet to find a map that really stops me (at least in last 5 or so years). Even some infamous wads that I have gotten frustrated before, I have managed to beat eventually. I never cheat EXCEPT in very rare cases where I really can't beat a level or must cheat to progress, due to map design/error. I don't cheat to get inaccessible monsters/items/secrets, in those cases I just finish the map normally with as much possible. To me playing UV continuous and saving/loading often on multiple slots will solve most problems. That should make things much easier but still challenging at times and I'm fine with that. I don't have the patience to complete many maps (especially in one go) and my time is limited, I prefer to finish as many maps/wads as possible and I am not ashamed to admit I save very often in general, so when I die, I don't lose much progress and can try again immediately.

 

Final Thoughts: Skulltiverse was a pretty interesting megawad with a cool concept, that was really damn hard at times, at least some of the maps and while I didn't enjoy some of the maps due to how fucking hard they were, you can tell that most levels were really good, very good looking and designed and the gameplay was alright in most cases, just not a huge fan of those harsh encounters that have only one way to beat them and kill you multiple times until you are lucky enough to make it through. To me it seems frustrating and cheap.
What I don't understand is that some mappers were sadistic when comes to the difficulty of SOME maps. I found some maps really difficult, I think MAP21 and MAP28 were easily the hardest of the whole wad and even harder than MAP30, which was also hard, though mostly ok (on continuous at least!) and nowhere near as damn hard as those two.
Seriously, I don't really understand why some maps felt so difficult compared to others (aka a difficulty spike) but I know there's been different mappers involved and everyone has different playstyle and some people prefer to rush, others (like me) prefer a more careful approach in some cases (except those cases where you are absolutely forced to think and act fast or else you die quickly) and because of that, there's some maps that require different approaches in order to win a certain fight. And of course a lot of relying on RNG because some parts seem impossible if enemies manage to deal max damage continuously and completely blind you with red screen of death, while after trying again on next attempt, they may miss you or hit you for low damage or something similar.

And to me, since I prefer playing UV, continuously with saves and getting 100% in every level (after all, secrets will greatly offer you the needed advantage to deal with some parts and also to have something extra for the next level), I have a much easier time and I didn't have to use any cheats in order to complete the megawad. Every level (with exception of MAP19 and MAP21 and possibly MAP30, due to those missing enemies) could be completed 100%.

I played SKULLTIVERSE.wad dated 12/08/2021 23:31. I just downloaded and played the latest version that was available from idgames when I joined previous week, maybe there was a newer version uploaded in meantime that may have fixed those missing monsters. Or at least there should be another update soon, which should fix some issues already mentioned.

However, while I managed to complete the whole wad without using any cheats (which I'm proud of the results), I admit I did a bit of cheating in some maps, in order to find and think how to access some secrets I simply couldn't find myself. The way I did this was by loading the wad separately in ZDoom, warping to that map, cheating (GOD, NOCLIP, FLY, KILL MONSTERS, etc), then using IDDT (while changing a few automap settings, so that secrets will always on automap, even if not yet found, just like PrBoom+) and once I figured out how to get that secret, go back to PrBoom+, load my last save and try getting those secrets, so I get 100% before leaving the map.

This cheating method I found a few years ago for quick secret hunting (if there is no walkthrough/guide for the wad in question, on DoomWiki or YouTube or something) and that way I have an easier time to find some secrets rather than directly cheating on a vanilla/boom compatible port (which makes it hard to noclip around the levels with vanilla physics) and to me ZDoom feels pretty comfortable in that case and helps a lot when flying around the levels without any monster bothering you, so I have an easier time finding how to access a secret, even if took a lot of time in some levels. And that way I will also help others get the secrets if they want to get 100% everything.

 

Regardless of what wins next month, I hope to be part of the next month's club as well. Just wish that next month's choice would be something else than yet another new/recent Doom 2 megawad because for the last couple of months, there's been only recent releases played (with the exception of Base Ganymede) and I would really appreciate if something older gets chosen or something entirely different (a different IWAD or a ZDoom mapset or something). I would have also liked if Hexen got chosen (considering I've been nominating it since I joined the club back in April when Heretic was played) but seeing as the possible winner KINDA has 5 votes already, I doubt any other choices will have a chance win unless a miracle happens. Not that I'm complaining and don't want to sound rude to the person behind that megawad (maybe it will be good, though I don't have high expectations), just wish the next month was different than just another recent Doom 2 megawad. The only advantage I can think, of playing a recent release, is that the club will provide enough feedback, so that there will be a better final version of the wad.

Have a nice day everyone!

Spoiler

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by FistMarine

[Book Lord]

I did not vote for this month's choice and managed to play it anyway. I don't mind what the Club chooses if it's a contemporary WAD, I'll let you pick it for me since you are better informed.

 

I am only placing this vote as a reminder for you all:

 

+++Hexen: Beyond Heretic

 

Gotta play it during the next six months!

 

 

[dei_eldren]

Final comments - Skulltiverse

 

i have now played exactly two Megawads, both in this club, where all the levels were unified, more or less loosely, by a gameplay-gimmick - Doom Zero, where the switch-hunt gimmick defined to an extent the style of play on every map, and Skulltiverse, where the skullgate functioned as a unifier between maps with vastly differing styles.  Of course, between these is also the separation of the former being the work of a single author, whereas this one had multiple, but i don't think the comparison is unfair, at least from me, because i on the whole seem to favour single-author Megawads for the constancy of their design and their stylistic uniformity - for me, these help create a more immersive experience, provided that the author is inspired enough to both stick to his guns and go through the necessary troubles of labour and creativity to create what he set out to do (my choices for Top WADs in the corresponding thread are almost uniformly single-author sets).  In this instance, i must say though, that in my estimation, Doom Zero suffered somewhat from it's limiting gimmick becoming restrictive, or sometimes even a creative crutch, for its author, whereas in Skulltiverse the unifying gimmick of hunt for the BSK and subsequent exit through the skullgate, managed to really bring a sense of unity amongst the diversity of its maps.  My point with this ultimately arbitrary (WADs can be associated with each other through a myriad of different criteria, regardless of their actual significance) comparison is, that in my estimation because of its central gimmick, Skulltiverse managed to overcome the problem of continuity and immersion in a WAD with many different mapping styles and also apparently vastly varying experience levels of its mappers, instead of remaining just an interesting collection of maps.  The gimmick was simple and unintrusive, and worked like a charm.

 

Naturally such a diverse group of mappers also means not every map is going to be to mine, or anybody else's, liking, whereas in a single author WAD there is an expectation, if not altogether a realistic likelihood, that one either likes or does not like, to whatever degree, the majority of maps in general.  In the case of this WAD, there was really only less than a handful of maps i didn't stylistically like, but more often my dislike became simply a function of varying difficulty levels (and this i mean, apart from the expected difficulty curve with its normal spikes and troughs).  Though i may have said differently at the time, i think instances of deliberate sadism were happily missing (i did not play MAP28, so am ignorant by firsthand experience of what went on there and all i know about it is hearsay..), especially after having got through a couple of instances where i may have at first suspected such - but it's true that there's nothing wrong with sometimes demanding also pedestrian HNTR players to up their game, and ultimately, every instance turned out to be doable with some practice and effort.  It was also fun to notice that every mapper who had created more than one map for this, had at least one, usually more and sometimes all of them, map that i enjoyed.

 

It was also interesting to see from other people's videos and reviews how different some of the levels were on higher difficulties - a few of them seemed to play like a different style of level altogether.  And i do understand catering to casual HNTR players (who don't want too much stress...) in maps that are meant to be extremely challenging is not always even possible while keeping true to the intended style.

 

Congratulations and thanks to ViolentBeetle for overseeing Skulltiverse and making it the WAD that it is, and thanks to all the mappers for their work and creativity!  i thoroughly enjoyed the whole, and even if a few maps i didn't care for, i still had fun playing through them.

 

i am unable to choose a favourite map, there were so many different kinds that were equally good, and my ranking list also needs to be taken with a good spoonful of salt.  Being in the top-15 or so is a really high score from me, but also, being in lowest-5 doesn't mean the level couldn't be, even in my opinion, excellent in design and execution (for example, MAP13 is such), only that it's in style totally contrary to my preferences.

 

Ranked (slightly adjusted):

Spoiler

MAP15

MAP18

MAP12

MAP01

MAP10

MAP14

MAP23

MAP03

MAP08

MAP29

MAP04

MAP19

MAP06

MAP31

MAP25

MAP16

MAP26

MAP11

MAP02

MAP21

MAP22

MAP09

MAP05

MAP07

MAP27

MAP17

MAP20

MAP13

MAP24

 

Thanks to everyone who participated - i had fun, as usual, reading through reviews and watching through videos, and learning quite a lot in the process - thanks to everyone who had the patience to read my ramblings or watch my struggles.  i join FistMarine in hoping for more older WADs to be played for a change, after this flurry of recent ones, but i'll join again as long as what's chosen isn't something like Sunlust or whatever, and when you guys and girls finally decide on Hexen i'll get a month off :D  i'll still keep offering the few i've suggested earlier, especially Wonderful Doom since it's gotten some votes and could realistically be selected one of these months, for some time, before deciding to play them alone.

 

MAP30 (a bit early, but since others are finishing off the WAD already, also...)

Spoiler

So, first i thought, no way am i gonna make this.  Then i decided to hunker down a bit, and cleared the starting room.  Same thing in the next area - noooo waaayyyy.... turning to, ok, let's see what we can do.  And it turned out to be much easier than expected.  Just run around and try to avoid projectiles and not run into too many Pinkies, and in the end, they're all dead.  Then come the Archies...ok, nothing BFG blast won't take care of.  But then, the first (?) room inside.  i clear the first monsters and even figure out the crushers (and people complain about the crushers in John Romero's Greatest Megawad Ever, Si666il??)  But, i liked these, too, very creative.  Anyhow, after them, i can't make progress.  No ammo, no health, no chance, no life, no opportunity... i've no idea how to progress after the Cacos come.  i wish i did.  But instead of having been teleported there by force after killing the Arch-Viles (i don't know if i by accident stepped into one or what), i wish i had had chance to stock up.  Anyway, i thought i was gonna make it through, but not from that room... The map was really good looking, i liked the texturing that was quite unusual, and the arena looked fantastic against the void, and after i understood the situation, so was also the combat pretty fun.

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by dei_eldren

[DJVCardMaster]

MAP29 - "World's End"- 7Soul (100%K/I/S):

This one is sweet, a lot of ships randomly floating around the void itself, so you are inside a cove, in the middle of the void.
The void gathered so much force, the yellow skull key got sucked in HMP and Easy mode, so I feel it has a little bit more mass in UV for it not to get sucked. This map was really good, and one of the best looking so far, it wasn't actually difficult for the wad standards and for MAP29 standards, also, it was pretty short, and I got surprised. Sadly, I've found that the yellow key is not there in HMP, so I had to switch for once to UV, and I was scared I could not finish this map, luckly for me, it was still really simple in the highest difficulty, as it had way to much health lying around, and my only deaths were  because of the cyberdemons at the end (Heck, I'm really bad at fighting them, it seems). 
Sadly, the key bug is something that lowers points for me, but hey, don't feel wrong, you'll encounter the same problem on a commercial IWAD, so it happens to anyone, still a no-no for me, the things that should be always checked for difficulty settings are the keys and the voodoo dolls, if you have problems with monsters not spawning, is not a big deal, but the map should be finishable.
Still a great map, but another grippe would be its placement, far easier/shorter than other iterations of the void maps, I think I would have switched places with MAP28 or even MAP27, but that may be the bias most people like me have, about a hard and "epic" MAP29.


Deaths: 314 (HMP - PrBoom+)*

Order of preference:

Spoiler

 

MAP15
MAP19

MAP10
MAP27
MAP31
MAP29
MAP09
MAP13
MAP23
MAP21
MAP11

MAP05
MAP26
MAP25
MAP12
MAP22
MAP16
MAP24

MAP03

MAP01
MAP20
MAP14
MAP04
MAP07
MAP32
MAP08
MAP02
MAP06
MAP18
MAP28
MAP17

 

*Doing MAP29 on UV.

Sadly void theme is coming to a close, I feel like it deserved more maps.

[DuckReconMajor]

19 hours ago, dei_eldren said:

This map basically starts with something i've never seen in Doom before, ships! at a waterfront.

I might be reading this wrong but this list is great. My personal favorite is the Akeldama one.

 

MAP29 - World's End - dsda-doom - skill 4 pistol start - rewinds used 

 

I love Doom boats and void boat is a new flavor of Doomboat i like a lot now.

The whole environment was a great place to run around and shoot things in. The cyber boat was awesome too

 

Spoiler

 

 

[dei_eldren]

24 minutes ago, DuckReconMajor said:

I might be reading this wrong but this list is great. My personal favorite is the Akeldama one.

 

i had no idea maritime vessels in Doom were a thing! :D  Thanks!  Pretty nice ones...

Edited September 29, 2021 by dei_eldren

[ViolentBeetle]

It is true that MAP29 represents a difficulty dip and should probably be MAP27. But for whatever reason I just feel like this concept should be used for a penultimate map - so I didn't move it. It also provides nice wind-down from the opressiveness of the previous two and before the finale (Which also isn't as opressive, but still heavily populated).

 

As an amusing anecdote, I pushed a cyberdemon off the cliff once and jumped after him for a telefrag. That was pretty funny.

[DJVCardMaster]

1 hour ago, ViolentBeetle said:

As an amusing anecdote, I pushed a cyberdemon off the cliff once and jumped after him for a telefrag. That was pretty funny.

I forgot to mention that, I pushed it of the cliff, but then I made my exit through the portal difficult, sadly I'm often underthinking and I forgot I could TF it. Extra challenge, I guess (?)

[cannonball]

MAP29 - “World’s End” by 7Soul

 

There is nothing wrong with difficulty drops during a megawad, especially after something that would be approaching X-tier difficulty. Anyway, to this map.

It is really good, I am very glad to see something like this after last map. It is tricky in parts, but generally quite approachable, the theme is well thought out and executed very well. 

The first big fight I handled without even picking up the megasphere, the second was trickier though not to overwhelming, killing the cyber on the lower section is harder because of his cramped position. Still I managed when he was distracted by a couple of revenants. The one by the blue key is easy to defeat by sitting below him and unloading plasma after the rest of the horde is dead.

No real complaints here, I had no issues with navigation at all and the fights were engaging, fun but no overly difficult. Well done.

[TJG1289]

GZDoom/Blind/UV/Continuous/Saves

Map 29 - World's End - 7Soul

100% kills and secrets

Time: 10:12

 

After the brutalness of the last level, we could really use a break, right? We kind of get that with this penultimate level. We've arrived to a voided shipwreck area, with several vessels washed up on this surreal island. Most of this map is pretty easy, especially the first half, which has you dealing mostly with weaker enemies like zombies and imps, with a few mancubi and an arachnotron to add pressure. Getting onto the ship will allow access to a second with a hole in its side, and some more weaker baddies. You can find 2 secrets here when emerging from the opposite hole after hitting a switch. Go behind the ship to find a soul sphere and a box of shells, then before jumping back down to the opening area, keep on the rock with the rocket to find a bunch of single rockets. Now that the cool looking skull pillars are dropped, you can proceed. Rocket the murder of revs that pop up by the plasma and hit that switch to lower a wall with the first tough fight. More revs and assorted nonsense, accented by 2 archies. Again, yay for continuous BFG, but I didn't have a ton of ammo for it after the last map, so I used enough to get rid of the flame bois. There's a secret backpack over by the plasma on a lower ledge too, so grab that. There's a switch in the monster alcove that lowers a lift that when ridden takes you to the yellow key, assuming you have the patched version or playing the right mode (taking inspiration from TNT Map 31 I see, lol). There's a soul sphere up here too if needed, and there's another mega armor behind the boat where the yellow door is. Hit the switch behind the yellow door to start the final fight, that's actually kind of tricky. A wall lowers nearby with a cyb, another one teleports by the blue skull ship at the beginning, and a bunch of riff raff appears everywhere. Ignore the partial invisibility (do you want to catch a stray rocket?), grab the BFG, and prepare to use as much of the level's space as possible. A Megasphere will have lowered too, so grab it when needed. Try to get some infighting going, then once it's just the cybies left, 2-shot 'em. I did the lower one first, then the one by the blue key. If you're on the furthest side of the ship the lower cyb is on, the other one shouldn't be able to hit you. Once that's done, grab the blue skull and get out. Fun little level. Used its void theme quite nicely, and it does seem more fitting to be here than earlier in this theme. The ships oddly enough do bring a sense of finality. We're almost at the end, just one more map to go.

[baja blast rd.]

I had stuff come up that sapped a lot of my energy, so sadly I won't get to the 27-30 writeups on schedule, or probably anywhere close, but I'll try to edit them into this post later in October and @ the authors just to make sure that isn't totally missed. (I thought 29 was a sick map and also added it to my favorites list.) 

 

Overall, I have two main takeaways from Skulltiverse: 

 

- It's a community project with more unity than usual. The shared flexible space restriction, the motifs such as the blue-skull key device, the defined episode themes, and even the recurring mappers who had their own signature styles and preoccupations showing up in different contexts, all helped it jell more. It might not be perfect there, but a project where everything was made in one week is, at least that way, supposed to be a total mess. And yet this wasn't.

 

I have always had a soft spot for looser community projects too, but if there is one underexplored area, it's that middle ground between unified private team projects and "everyone does their own thing with the provided assets and loose rules" community projects. I've felt that throwing down a simple restriction or very general concept, while it can lead to good places, can be somewhat of a toss-up, but more starting with more defined ideas -- a specific mix of story, theme, concept, assets, gimmicks, and limits might more reliably lead there. 

 

- The entire roster is full of promising newer mappers, whether they joined in 2020 or more like 2018, and whether they had their strongest maps here or somewhere else. I would be happy to try whatever they make next. And even among the few people who've been around for much longer, Moustachio made my favorite ever map of his this year in the WIP Ray Mohawk 2.

 

I'm glad I voted for this last month. 

 

*

 

 

27: "Last Ruin" by Muumi

 

If the void theme is something that been explored a lot in Doom, then Muumi in some of their maps have been exploring versions of it that are far from rote. This one, rather than the more common abstract take on it, is a slice of the Earth long after ruin. The cities have crumbled, and giant edifices stand in the abyss.

 

 

For whatever reason, they are all facing this city, which is a small husk of not much note, so I imagine they probably aren't stationary towers or portals constructed specifically to watch it. Rather more chillingly, they might be living entities that move at a glacially slow pace and have taken an interest in it. This might be a world where even small fragments of life are exceedingly rare. Whatever went down here, this cozy bedroom has escaped ruin, and it's either amusing or harrowing to end up here after trekking through all the devastation. 

 

 

"Last Run" is a clever map both in its visual and encounter design. All in all, this map is a small package that oozes that feeling of being well thought out, and some traits start to stick out in the gameplay: 

 

Most of the bigger encounters use a chaotic mix of both fragile monsters and mid-tiers, with the main threat being getting overwhelmed by the mid-tiers -- which peaks in the very cramped BFG encounter -- but in the meantime a lot of weaker monsters get involved as either dangerous threat themselves (especially chaingunners) or in a enjoyable "crunchy kills" role. 

 

Encounters often consciously have multiple layers of threat: for example, in the first vile encounter, seconds into the battle, imps start porting in to keep you off balance. Later in the main courtyard, the first mob of fodder, cacodemons drift over for support. 

 

Archviles are common. The most dangerous are probably the three in the yellow key region. If you let them chase you through the ruins, that encounter can be tough, but trying to be more aggressive against them and immediately start hosing them down while blocking the chokepoint can work very well. (Minimizing hiding against archviles is often a good tactic, because every time they stop to attack is time they won't spread out in more dangerous configurations.) This pattern recurs; the last group that revisits at the end is one you want to BFG-spam down very aggressively before they get out of hand. 

 

And there is quite a bit of repopulation going on. That courtyard is home to at least a few fights, one cyber showdown, and when you think there can't possible be anything left after you deal with that port-in of archviles in the start area on your way to the exit portal...

 

Spoiler

 

28: "Void Hydroprocessing II" by Rivi the Warlock

 

This cuboid marble castle with strong blue highlights reminds me a lot of Water Spirit by Manbou, and the overall look with its gridbound nature is definitely one way to use every inch of the project's map space limit without looking like you're unnaturally straining for it. 

 

 

I played the earlier version of this map and thought it overly harsh, giving me the feeling of "My First Challenge Map," where the desire to make things difficult greatly outpaces the nuance and knowledge with which that is done. But this update must have been dialed that down substantially -- notably the archviles in the yellow key are stuck spectators that aren't alerted as the barriers raise and lower. (I'm not sure if that is a bug or not.) 

 

In a few places, infinite height is still awkward. In the start scenario, you're forced to leave HKs behind, and later these block the more intuitive way of dropping back to the exit, which can be painful if you forget they are there. And after ditching the HKs and entering the first real fight, you should probably platform across to grab a weapon unless you want to dance in the pool with only a pistol, but the monsters in the pit can easily block your drop back down if you aren't careful.

 

But it has improved noticeably from that version I played. 

 

My favorite encounter this time around ended up being the caco-gasbag swarm at the end, which is quite a sight and a fitting climax with just how relentless it is, the way the meatballs and tomatoes keep floating over the fortress walls for an eternity. As far as tackling it goes, you definitely should kill the two cyberdemons that spawn up top as quickly as possible. Then the main ideas become: 1) ignore the other two cybs in the lower pool (these will infight for you and are mostly intended to prevent you from fleeing to that pool); 2) constantly BFG spam the fliers -- don't worry about getting super efficient shots, because there is tons of cell ammo and plenty of rockets as a fallback; 3) most importantly, constantly pick up cell ammo near the pillars so you don't get stranded amid a crowd of fliers with an empty BFG. Calling that a "fight" might be an understatement; "event" describes it even better. 

 

29: "World's End" by 7Soul

 

I don't understand why this theme is so appealing to me; it's just boats...wait that answered my question didn't it. 7Soul's void shipyard makes me ask, "why are there so many boats, and why are some of them just floating out there?" and every major event happening in and around a boat starts to have an amusing regularity to it. It's also well crafted, made out of a lot of chunks of material that fit together in a very coherent and visually appealing way. 

 

 

 

There is very little downtime. Every major encounter is intense, the highlight being the last one with the BFG, which is a joyous mess. It's also a fight where partial invisibility can be counterintuitively helpful. You wouldn't think to want one with two cybers around, but the cybers are distant or sheltered, and the blur spheres encourage lots of useful infighting through wayward cyb rockets hitting unexpected monsters. Throughout the map, the gameplay has an undercurrent of deliberately using slight awkwardness -- note the platforming across the pillars in the first area, and then through the crates in the darker boat interior, and the last fight's BFG placed in a really tricky spot where grabbing it right away is risky. Offsetting this awkwardness is a very generous health balance, with a centrally accessed mega later you can save entirely for the main fight. That combination of peskiness and a forgiving nature really works; the balance lets you really lean into the hardships without being too annoyed by them.

 

As a bonus: the way this map is assembled coincidentally makes it good fun for random silliness that I like. One of my favorite things is to BFG-push the cybs off the edge of the map (the lower one is a lot easier of course); the teleport lines carry it to the start location, where it's stuck, which allows you to finish it off by telefragging. I also had so much fun platforming up to the other boat cyber and finishing it off with a BFG up close that I threw down a save there and kept repeating it for fun (it took a while for me to fling the cyb off the boat, and as you can tell I was very excited about that :P).

 

Spoiler

 

 

Through all of this, "World's End" was a fairly unexpected contender for one of my top-3 maps in the set. (I say unexpected only because it's not a map that immediately might jump out at you compared to the set's standouts; it's obviously, even at just a glance, a decent-looking map.)

 

30: "An Eye for an Eye" by ViolentBeetle

 

The closer is ViolentBeetle's last, sort of a grab-bag of concept fights and slaughter fights in another cross-shaped fortress. This is what all the portal and realm-hopping has been leading up to. We finally get to meet the big boss. Would you be surprised to find out it's a...well we'll get to that later. 

 

A series of intro fights set the stage with part small-scale combat gauntlet and part (the non-grindy parts of) Hell Revealed 2, interlaced with cool little effect where the void itself opens up to new areas, like the world materializing around you. When you're done, the layout opens up into a pair of key wings. The west-wing red key grid area is one I found a down note, despite its interestingly scripted environmental hazard. It's sort of a clumsy, overly tight space to fight in (you're mostly hanging back in one or two spots and pumping out rockets) -- and when I realized the ceiling crushers would only do 30 damage instead of crushing you permanently, that area lost its sting because the crushers also then protect you from monsters while you're squished under the floor, and you can drag in enough health and armor to not worry about the damage. 

 

The east-wing yellow key encounter is creative too: a hilarious clump of lost souls provides interference while you are tasked to take down four stationary archviles before the barriers that encircle them lower and remove all the cover you have. This time around I didn't go in with much plasma, so I had an exciting moment near the end where I had two wounded archviles with the barriers just about touching the ground, and finished them off at around the same time with the SSG. 

 

The main showdown is an entertaining Icon of Sin bout for my tastes because it doesn't fall back on an overly tricky sequence at the end that clashes with the rest of the gameplay. It's mostly just "kill stuff quickly and leave." There are some cybers (two of which make another really surprising entrance, thanks to good use of a delayed trap) and a big mixed crew of monsters, along with the steady repopulations of the Icon of Sin -- and all of this forms a meatwall that you have to clear out to press four switches in order to gain access to the last platform. 

 

The impulse might be to clear them out in a panic, but that is a mistake. Efficiently matters more than speed early on. Spamming BFG might be intuitive, but there aren't quite enough cells to sustain that for long, and you can easily end up having to take out a cyberdemon with a much slower weapon before gaining access to the platform, and that lets many Icon spawns potentially gather, and exposes you more to the other scary threat here, which is potential telefrags.  

 

At first I was sort of irritated by the possibility of the spawn cubes telefragging me with no floor markers indicating where those cubes might go -- but then I realized it actually feels a lot like the boss's attack here, which is fitting.

 

Once you've cleared everything out and gain access to the platform, you can easily fire three rockets to defeat the last adversary. 

 

Spoiler

 

Finally finished the rest (I had to avoid writing burnout, but I wasn't planning on sneakily abandoning this :P).

@muumi, @RiviTheWarlock, @7Soul, @ViolentBeetle