NOVA IV, MBF21 compatible project for beginners (slots filled)

[Novaseer]

Just to save @Cammy from scoring the entire WAD (maybe, idk, at least DGM implied it), and because I'll be damned if I don't start my mapping procrastination spree within a day or so of the project starting, I cooked up a quick and fairly simple intermission MIDI.

 

Feedback appreciated, but that's kinda the point of this entire endeavour, ain't it?

 

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ep5war0b6ys0p310bcclv/D_DM2INT.mid?rlkey=oepuckf0a7wujd1ppss3r0cef&dl=0

[baja blast rd.]

31 minutes ago, Lorenz0 said:

Okay, so this was meant to be taken seriously? I understand that it's in the title, but NOVA has always seemed like a beginner wad in name only. I just looked at NOVA III's credits and more than half is experienced mappers. Naming just a few we have antares031, Bemused, Benjogami, Big ol' Billy, DMPhobos, Scotty, sincity2100. Basically all cacoward winners.

 

I'm definitely not an amateur mapper, but when I saw NOVA IV be announced, I thought it would be more like III again, so I signed up. I can let go of my spot and back out of the project with no issue if you genuinely want to rebrand this project as amateur mapper-focused. But 2 and 3 have been anything but that. Above anything else, I'd like it to be more clear what this wad is supposed to be.

 

Nova II was the one exception. Those Nova III authors were not experienced at the time they started working for it, which is the only fair way to look at that. 

[DMPhobos]

1 hour ago, Lorenz0 said:

 I just looked at NOVA III's credits and more than half is experienced mappers. Naming just a few we have antares031, Bemused, Benjogami, Big ol' Billy, DMPhobos, Scotty, sincity2100. Basically all cacoward winners.

 

 

Nova 3 had a long development cycle, and during that time many of those mappers did contributions to other projects or released more stuff on their own while their Nova submissions remained unreleased for a long time. For the record, when i joined and submitted my Nova 3 map, my only released map was this one (looking back seems that even that map was released after my nova 3 submission was made) and had a few contributions in progress for other community projects. 

 

Edited January 12 by DMPhobos

[SSGmaster]

5 hours ago, Li'l devil said:

Here's a good way of defining who counts as a newcomer: anyone with 2023-2024 registration date (maybe 2022 too). You can throw everyone else out!

What about people who registered before but haven't made anything yet?
 

[Super Mighty G]

5 hours ago, Li'l devil said:

I'm sure there are a plenty of mappers who have been around for quite long that never hit it big, because they just never got lucky to get into a popular community project and/or their standalone maps were never noticed in the sea of other maps.

*raises hand*

I don't claim to have made anything particularly good though. I also don't have anything substantial to work off of except that time MtPain gave my Nova II maps a middling grade.  

[obake]

13 hours ago, dobu gabu maru said:

Oh heyyyyy well this is a surprise I didn't expect! You should've PM'd me about this, as I had a couple of tips in mind before the thread was organized:

 

- The first is not to slot mappers by map. Authors can choose episode themes to sign up for and whatnot, but with a disparate group like this you do not want to leave it up to individual mappers to fill specific slots—that falls under management's duty (ie you & the playtesters). That way you can avoid having two sloggy maps placed back to back. To that end I would also not put a strict limit on the # of maps in an episode—just let people map for the themes they're interested in, and form the episodes around the amount of contributions you get.

 

- The second thing—and something that's especially important for this project, seeing as folks are flocking to it like ants at a picnic—is that you need to prioritize amateur mappers. NiGHTS is an established mapper with their own Doomwiki page, Andrea already has a map in NOVA 2, MFG38 has made a literal megawad—you should be vetting these people and denying them if they ask to join! NOVA was designed specifically for mappers that are wet behind the ears: folks that may have done some dabbling but have never been a part of a megawad that goes through its own alpha/beta/RC phases. If intermediate mappers want to join they should look for open slots elsewhere; NOVA should be for folks that have released ~5 maps maximum. ^{Although I guess it wouldn't be NOVA without a vet or two photobombing the project out of nowhere.}

 

- The third is that you wanna encourage mappers to also be playtesters. If it was me I would've made it mandatory for any mapper to also provide feedback on like, two additional maps that get submitted to the project. Folks should be encouraged to communicate & collaborate as much as they create, especially in a project like this. When you're new to Doom mapping, good feedback can be as valuable as finding water in a desert.

 

- cannonball made a great point that amateur musicians should be equally encouraged to participate (no solo OSTs this time Cammy!!!) and Xaser stressing that you want to add new dehacked enemies before the project starts is spot-on.

 

I got a couple other reservations but I'm not the one running the project :P I wish all new mappers that sign up the best of luck & to try and enjoy themselves. Don't go into this expecting to make your magnum opus or win accolades—just start with a cool idea or urge to map and see where it goes from there. And to obake—it's a looooong and winding road to the final release, so I hope you're a patient fellow.

As far as map slots, I said in the initial post that slots are up to be reorganized for balance. I totally agree that map order is super important; that's why I also specified no map 07 specials, because the order of the maps is likely to change.

 

As far as prioritizing new mappers, I totally agree! It is something I should have thought of more. With that said, the more experienced mappers with map slots can contribute to Megiddo instead, since Megiddo has always been more established mappers as far as I can tell. This opens up more maps to newcomers.

 

I will absolutely encourage playtesting, and as far as the dehacked enemies go, the two are in the works specifically for the secret maps and nothing else (one is not really even an enemy, just a decoration.)

 

Thanks for your invaluable feedback, and for helping the Nova series get its footing. Without your guidance there wouldn't even be a Nova IV to begin with! :)

[MFG38]

7 minutes ago, obake said:

the more experienced mappers with map slots can contribute to Megiddo instead, since Megiddo has always been more established mappers as far as I can tell. This opens up more maps to newcomers.

 

I'll happily give up my Episode 3 slot in favor of Megiddo, been wanting to do a proper collab sort of map lately.

 

Also, if it's okay, I'm down for composing bespoke MIDIs for people who might ask.

[obake]

Looks like I forgot to add MiniMedals to the roster, and they were one of the first to join. I apologize.

[DankMetal]

35 minutes ago, MFG38 said:

 

I'll happily give up my Episode 3 slot in favor of Megiddo, been wanting to do a proper collab sort of map lately.

 

Also, if it's okay, I'm down for composing bespoke MIDIs for people who might ask.

I wanted an episode 3 slot before obake moved me to episode 1, i will be more than happy to take that slot just if you want tho.

[NecrumWarrior]

As someone who hasn't made a midi before but is interested in trying, I am open to composing something for this. Genres that interest me are: Ambient horror, synthwave/dark wave, thrash metal. 

 

Also I am available whenever people need playtesting. 

[dobu gabu maru]

15 hours ago, NiGHTS108 said:

Not gonna lie, ironically I'm actually pretty complimented I'd be considered an "established mapper"

 

10 hours ago, baja blast rd. said:

(I still thought of NiGHTS as a newcomer, despite being pretty active in 2023, but if you want to draw the ~5 maps maximum there are a handful of other authors that are above that and similarly active as NiGHTS.) 

 

Oh yeah, didn't mean to single-out NiGHTS in particular, just needed some more examples from the first page of folks I would be hesitant to add (wasn't Misty also on there?) In retrospect, I think NiGHTS does count as a new mapper, it's just that I saw their 2023 output and thought "okay, they're clearly cooking, I doubt they need what NOVA provides." I'm out of touch with the up-and-coming community so I'm sure there are more authors I could've given the stink eye at.

 

10 hours ago, MFG38 said:

But what I hope you can understand - and this is the least defensive I can make this sound - is that the learning process within those 15 years has been slow.

 

I sympathize with this but NOVA isn't just about helping mappers improve—it's an exclusive space for mappers that haven't even figured out what they like to make. I think what you're looking for is a workshopping project where people give active feedback on each others' maps, which is a cool idea but it's not this idea. No matter what you may think of your output over the past decade and a half, you have tread well past the point of being a new mapper.

 

(Of course, with all that said, if obake lets you into the project, that's their call to make. They're the project lead, not me.)

 

8 hours ago, Li'l devil said:

Here's a good way of defining who counts as a newcomer: anyone with 2023-2024 registration date (maybe 2022 too). You can throw everyone else out!

 

Very not true! Lots of folks can be players/playtesters/lurkers for a considerable amount of time before they finally dip their toes into mapping. I was there before, I'm sure hundreds of others have been too.

 

5 hours ago, Lorenz0 said:

I understand that it's in the title, but NOVA has always seemed like a beginner wad in name only.

 

Like rd. pointed out, most of the III contributors were indeed new at the time, and II's excuse is that it was a disorganized mess that was torn between debuting new mappers and showing off what the NOVA I alums could do. In my opinion, the spirit of the project is and always should be about aiding and showcasing new mappers. The moment NOVA becomes just another community project that allows anyone to sign up is the moment it loses its integrity. At that point you may as well turn it into an ecchified gacha game where you're trying to pull blurry jpegs of doomworld authors in their speedos.

 

3 hours ago, obake said:

Thanks for your invaluable feedback, and for helping the Nova series get its footing. Without your guidance there wouldn't even be a Nova IV to begin with! :)

 

No problem. Sorry if any of this is too pushy; like with the Doomworld Megawad Club, I'm very attached to NOVA as a concept because I know its going to be the enduring "thing" I leave to the community. Scotty handled it well and I'm hopeful you will too.

[Bobby :D]

11 hours ago, Lorenz0 said:

Naming just a few we have antares031, Bemused, Benjogami, Big ol' Billy, DMPhobos, Scotty, sincity2100. Basically all cacoward winners

 

11 hours ago, JackDBS said:

I think that's because NOVA III had a development cycle of 3 years. I'm not sure if those mappers were as much experienced all the way back in 2016 when signups were made.

To be more specific:

• Antares031 - Only started work on Struggle around a year prior
• Bemused - Didn't release Cryogenics until 2 years after Nova 3 began
• Benjogami - Barely started releasing in 2016
• Big ol' Billy - Didn't release anything in 2016
• DMPhobos - Technically one of the most veteran mappers, but only really started upping his mapping during the latter half of the 2010's
• Scotty - Was still fresh in 2016, releasing only 5-ish maps
• sincity2100 - Didn't finish his first megawad until a year into NOVA 3's dev cycle

By the start of Nova 3, none of the people mentioned had earned a mentionation other than Benjogami earning most promising newcomer later on in the 2016 awards (and a retrospective missed cacoward for Toilet of The Gods). This could be an issue with the way NOVA 3's dev cycle grew into a 3 year run, in that each of the mappers in the list themselves all became incredibly prolific mappers in retrospect while NOVA 3 was in flux. Who knows? Maybe one or some of the new mappers in the roster will drop something in this year (or god forbid, the next few years if this NOVA enters dev hell) that could *arguably* make them outgrow their newcomer title and become more established mappers.

Still, I think that for the purposes of the project maintaining it's core identity, it's probably best at the moment to only allow ~5-10% of somewhat experienced or prolific mappers in the past year or so in as mapping contributors, but the vets/super vets should totally be allowed to help out as playtesting (which it seems that's the case!).

Edited January 13 by Bobby :D

[Misty]

I'm willing to give up my slot for this project for the newbie or least known person who wants to shine. My only regret that I didn't join 3rd iteration of Nova when Scotty invited me, wasn't feeling that my maps would be up to standard of the project, but now time passed, I gained more experiences, even if sometimes I suffer from impostor syndrome. 

[Lorenz0]

1 hour ago, dobu gabu maru said:

In my opinion, the spirit of the project is and always should be about aiding and showcasing new mappers.

Well if that's really the case and Obake is going to stand by this policy, I'll relinquish my slot as well, since I'm clearly in the wrong place!

 

Good luck to everyone else though, I'm very curious about how everyone handles those themes for the episode. They're somewhat unusual after all.

1 hour ago, Bobby :D said:

To be more specific:

(specifics)

Looking at where they are now...these people are too talented.

[OniriA]

If there's an open slot available I'd love to try to do a map for this. I'm still fairly new to mapping (still learning the ropes as we speak) and although I've dipped my toes in private mapping I have never had the opportunity to do a complete/finished map for the public yet. 

 

I believe that taking part in this would be a great learning experience for me in many ways. 

 

If there's no more open slots then I'm willing to stand in as a backup. 

[obake]

16 hours ago, Lorenz0 said:

Well if that's really the case and Obake is going to stand by this policy, I'll relinquish my slot as well, since I'm clearly in the wrong place!

 

Good luck to everyone else though, I'm very curious about how everyone handles those themes for the episode. They're somewhat unusual after all.

Looking at where they are now...these people are too talented.

 

 

17 hours ago, Misty said:

I'm willing to give up my slot for this project for the newbie or least known person who wants to shine. My only regret that I didn't join 3rd iteration of Nova when Scotty invited me, wasn't feeling that my maps would be up to standard of the project, but now time passed, I gained more experiences, even if sometimes I suffer from impostor syndrome. 

You have both shown great humility. I would like to add that you can still get your names in the credits and be part of the wad by helping playtest, if you wish. You two are awesome!

[DeafPixel]

ill post here in the unlikely chance that a slot gets freed and I can contribute ;p
kinda sad that it filled up so quickly, but i guess that was inevitable
Good Luck to everyone whos mapping, I think it'll turn out great

[EPICALLL]

update:
Significant progress made, however as ambitions grew and life got more busy, I suddenly realized 3 weeks was going to become 3 months. Oh well.

[Hunting4r2d2]

Hey, so I'm not sure if I'm in the backup list for mappers or not, but if so I would like to drop out. Life just got a lot busier than anticipated and, unfortunately, I don't think I have the time for Doom mapping right now.

Edited January 18 by Hunting4r2d2

[Alephany]

If someone drops, I'd like to give it a try if possible of course.

[obake]

19 hours ago, Hunting4r2d2 said:

Hey, so I'm not sure if I'm in the backup list for mappers or not, but if so I would like to drop out. Life just got a lot busier than anticipated and, unfortunately, I don't think I have the time for Doom mapping right now.

That's too bad. At the very least, you are in the wad credits for helping with the Dehacked side of things. I hope things go well for you.

[obake]

I'm updating the wad's rules by adding that difficulty settings will be implemented.

[SpaceCat_2001]

@obake I wanted to ask about art direction of episode I, do maps just steadily move in conctrustion of heaven progress? Like the first map is bare foundations and a lot of rubble, but moving through the wad heaven looks more and more finished, and the map08 has this finished look, with some final touches of construction activity. Or all maps are free for their interpretation of working course of the heavenly construction sites?

P.S. sorry if i sounds weird, english is not my native language.

[obake]

On 1/19/2024 at 10:20 AM, SpaceCat_2001 said:

@obake I wanted to ask about art direction of episode I, do maps just steadily move in conctrustion of heaven progress? Like the first map is bare foundations and a lot of rubble, but moving through the wad heaven looks more and more finished, and the map08 has this finished look, with some final touches of construction activity. Or all maps are free for their interpretation of working course of the heavenly construction sites?

P.S. sorry if i sounds weird, english is not my native language.

Each is free for their interpretation, so to speak.

[LightningBoltForever]

If anyone would like a custom MIDI for their map, add me to the list of people to contact for that. I've been making them for just a few months, so still relatively new at it myself!

[obake]

On 1/24/2024 at 7:15 PM, LightningBoltForever said:

If anyone would like a custom MIDI for their map, add me to the list of people to contact for that. I've been making them for just a few months, so still relatively new at it myself!

Listened to a few of these myself, specifically from the Hell's Bane folder. Great work!

 

From what I've heard, your MIDIs have a dreamlike quality to them.

 

[Nimiauredhel]

@obake I realized unfortunately that I might not be able to get back into Doom mapping as soon as I would have liked, so I'm giving up my slot to whoever's next on the list. :)

[obake]

On 2/4/2024 at 5:13 AM, Nimiauredhel said:

@obake I realized unfortunately that I might not be able to get back into Doom mapping as soon as I would have liked, so I'm giving up my slot to whoever's next on the list. :)

Understandable. Thanks for the heads up. 

[obake]

A few updates: one of the secret monsters has been made available to all mappers, as enough showed interest in using it. The other decoration monster has been replaced with a new monster, too, albeit only for the secret maps.

 

Progress on maps has been slow, but that is expected this early in development.

[scumgirle]

Would love to contribute a MIDI or two to this if a slot is/becomes available. I make electronic music as one of my other hobbies but just getting into MIDI composition for Doom within the last few weeks. WIP demo as proof I know my way around Sekaiju.

Edited February 16 by scumgirle