The DWmegawad Club plays: Back to Saturn X E1 & Favillesco E1

[j4rio]

Map 2 - played thrice, UV, pistol start, glb+

Fun, relatively short map easy to navigate with rl dominating the scene. Similarly to map 1, vast majority of monster were just thrown straight at player, which doesn't matter as much due to richer arsenal. I wasn't too fond of the first arachnotron placement, YK totally riped for some teleporting ambush and the exit room would IMO benefit from other monster combination than 4 cacos. Zero percent secrets because screw secrets.

[NuMetalManiak]

Finally started this after finishing Favillesco. HMP, continuous, frequent save/loads, attempting max kills/secrets let's see if H_C can do this...

MAP01 Back To Saturn X Radio Report

Eheheheh...

Honestly didn't like this one. Most MAP01's in a multi-level wad shouldn't be this large, and somehow despite it's apparent linearity I still got lost somehow. Only 95 monsters on HMP, actually none of them are truly troublesome, except for maybe one secret area. The only thing really necessary to do is to grab the blue key, and I dropped to where the chainsaw was, meaning I had to round all the way back again. That one secret area I mentioned pitted me outside, where there's this SSG for the taking, and an arachnotron. Shoot him and, SURPRISE!!! All these other monsters teleport in! But it wasn't bad seeing how I hid in a corner to avoid the arachnotrons while taking out imps. Proceeding to the exit was quite bland with two elevators just leading down. Overall, the palette is quite unique so far. The level felt like something from the Darkening E2 but more drawn out. Final Time 6:00.

Oh, and there's also a spiderdemon on coop.

[Memfis]

Normal btsx bores me so I'm going to use some outlandish additional wads and settings in an attempt to spice things up a bit:
- solo-net (multiplayer monsters and items spawn in single player)
- hrmus.wad (Hell Revealed soundtrack). I'll probably turn it off for maps 10, 15, 22 and 24 because these have pretty awesome songs imo.
- doomnoir.wad (black, white and red palette, the game looks like this)

As usual, I'm playing in prboom-plus -complevel 2 -skill 4, pistol start, no saves, recording a demo. I already know first 12 maps from singleplayer with normal settings and most of the other maps from ZDaemon/Zandronum survival servers.

01 - demo - I liked how the spiderdemon greets you but I think it would be cooler if at first the players didn't have any ammo to fight and they had to run past him and come back later with big weapons. Knowing that there is a big guy on the map and having to run away at first would put some pressure on the players. :)
Action inside the base was a bit slow but the fight for SSG with multiple spiders, revenants and cacos was a blast, and 3 arch-viles at the end were fun too, they almost got me at one point.
I knew 2 secrets from before but it still took some time to find them hehe.

02 - demo - fun RL nuts map, except some faraway monsters are easier to skip than to kill.

[Jayextee]

I'm playing. PRB+, continuous, UV, save/load at beginning of stages only (this may change if I start getting my ass handed to me).

MAP01 - BACK TO SATURN X RADIO REPORT

This starts off feeling like shit's going to go down. An initially-silent area that hands a whole bunch of ammo and a shotgun to me as if I'm going to need it much more than it turned out I did.

I must say, right away that although the palette is quite neat, some of the darker blues flash white when I collect things and that is horribly distracting. Anyone else getting this?

Anyway, not long into the map and it's clear the mappers know their shit. There's some witchcraft going on with an awesome faked bridge over some slime, and the texturing in general is just amazing.

The map's gameplay itself is so-so. It eased me in like a first map should, but didn't really offer anything out of the ordinary; a few mid-tier fights, an early chaingun, a berserk that wasn't totally necessary. And it ends with some kind of gritty train station. It's kinda neat, not totally interesting with it.

MAP02 - POSTAL BLOWFISH

This is more like it. The aesthetics here are still strong (although I think we've hit start-to-crate in a handful of minutes) but the gameplay has caught up. This map has an ammo balance that sits somewhere strangely between plentiful and tight -- I had to rocket-launch a few minor enemies midway through due to running out of both bullets and shells, but less than a minute later I was back up to full. I kinda like that though.

What I wasn't so sure of was the two rocket launchers early on in different areas -- one booby-trapped, one not. Can't really see the logic there since they're not exactly different routes, but I ended up acquiring both.

I really do like the outdoor areas though, especially the more organic rock formations; and there was a great fight with outdoor cacodemons and imps showcasing this.

[mouldy]

MAP02 - “Postal Blowfish” by Torn/Esselfortium

demo

I died once recording the demo, I'd like to blame it on some mouse trouble I was having but its probably just me being crap. This map had some nice little traps and moments of threat management between long range and short range attacks. I like the way space and height is used in the fights, I did find myself bumping into corners a bit picking up items in alcoves - thats something I always find fiddly and yet it seems so intuitive to place stuff in those kind of spots that I do it myself even though it annoys me. Already on map 02 we have rocket launcher and most of the bestiary making an appearance, though the difficulty still feels ok for an early map. Again I found no secrets, I gave up looking to be honest. I'm not that great at finding them unless they are clearly signposted so unless they are bloody obvious I will probably end up missing them. Cool map.

[Tompig]

Map 01 - Back to Saturn X Radio Report

Wow after playing this baby I knew we where in for a treat this month.

Level design was very well exercised here, almost old school layout with new school detail.

Monster fighting was fantastic! Lots of big'uns here considering its only map 1, and with me only huffing around a shotgun and a chaingun it really had that 'I'm on the back foot trying to fight back' survival feel that I love in maps like this.

(And the train exit, brilliant.)

Map 02 - Postal Blowfish.

Possibly the first time I have ever said this... good use of chaingunners.

Pretty much more of the delicious same from Map 1, with a rocket launcher added to team meatsack-marine (Very well placed trap by the way, do I want to get mancubi sniped trying to run across where cacos will bite my faceoff,
or sit here and let the hell knight do it at close range with my new toy more likely to kill me?)

Really looking forward to map 3, the detail on these are wonderful and the fightscenes do not disappoint.

(And nice use of air vents.)

[Alfonzo]

Where's All The Data, you ask? Why, it's right here!

Part 1 = http://www.twitch.tv/st_alfonzo/c/2679160 (Map01 - 31)

Part 1 features the entire first half of Get Out of My Stations, and with guest commentary from Pavera and Tarnsman. Since everyone onboard the stream is familiar with these early maps, having either played them many times before or aided in their creation, you can expect less bumbling about and more critical analysis. So enjoy!

...The stream that is. Not the mapset. It's impossible to enjoy that, being as terrible as it is.

EDIT: I'll also be looking to do write-ups on the maps themselves this time around, as there's a fair bit to talk about that I either didn't spare enough time for or even recall during play. The write-ups will, of course, be accompanied by the mandatory musical rating system.

[esselfortium]

Capellan said:

Not a fan of the palette. The nukage looks goofy to me, and I thought some of the grey and orange wall textures looked kind of ticky-tacky and fake. Didn't like what it did to the METAL type textures, either. Which is a shame, because the design is nice enough: lots of windows and ledges and neat stuff like that.

As an aside, the palette doesn't actually alter the gray, orange, or brown ranges, though oranges do get colormapped differently.

[Steve D]

st.alfonzo said:

...The stream that is. Not the mapset. It's impossible to enjoy that, being as terrible as it is.

True dat. God only knows what possessed all these guys to produce a mapset so lacking in vision and scope . . . ;D

[cannonball]

MAP02 - “Postal Blowfish” by Torn/Esselfortium
I struggled with shells and bullets throughout the map, reached the exit with 32 rockets = fail :P
This was fun, agree with j4rio about the first spider, he seems a bit annoying, it's chaingun safely to death or you die.
The plentiful supply of rockets should allow aggressive playing which I obviously didn't really do. I found 2 secrets (well the blindingly obvious secrets anyway). Visually very sound and the gameplay mostly again revolves around tactical positioning of monsters as opposed to any large traps. The exit room was rather limp though.
Edit just to note, I'm pistol starting these maps, could get interesting later on.

[Tarnsman]

Capellan said:

Having two lifts to the exit felt unnecessarily drawn out

The second lift is there because otherwise you would be able to see the hub area from the hallway and hit all sorts of overflows.

[Veinen]

Alright, time to take a trip to Saturn X. GLBoom+, UV, pistol starts and preferably no saves all the way through.

Map01: Back To Saturn X Radio Report --- 100% kills/100% secrets

Pretty solid opener. Looks great, as will probably all the other maps in this wad too judging by the first two maps. Not sure how I feel about the bright green slime but the new water looks alright. Might just be me but I had some troubles locating this one lift to the balcony in the middle parts of the map. Missed it completely yesterday on my first playthrough but I played this again today and since I was hell bent on getting maxkills I found it eventually. Also liked the calm before the storm -start the map had, even though there wasn't much of a storm to speak of afterwards.

Gameplay is good as well for a map01. There's very little in the way of challenge but that was to be expected really and if you do some secret hunting you'll be rewarded with some real action too. Although that Rev/Caco/Arach -mess is very unexpected and slightly out of place, I did like it and it was the most fun I had in the map. Combat is rather straightforward and there are no actual traps in this map that I can think of. I suppose the lack of challenge did show a few times though, since I had to entertain myself with barrels and some punching.

Map02: Postal Blowfish --- 100% kills/67% secrets

Nice map and surprisingly fun for such an easy one. The RL was given early and after that I commanded the battlefield with authority. Despite the higher number of middleweights, the map was still very easy due to the rocket launcher and the sufficient amount of rockets in the map. But it's really fun too since you can play very aggressively and there is a decent amount of blood to spill. Combat is still very straightforward but there's some good enemy placement in monsters on higher ground and in the distance. I agree that the finale could have been better though, like j4rio said there should have been other types of monsters than just Cacos. Looks great, not much else to say. Good map overall, definitely enjoyed this more than an average map02.

[Jimmy]

Capellan said:

Playing continuous, no music, frequent save & load.

N'awww. :(

[Tristan]

I don't contribute to the MegaWAD club, but I'm going to say (again) that MAP02 and MAP09's music are among the best from any megaWAD I've played yet. Actually maybe this a time I could start contributing. I quite like what I've played of BTSX anyway.

[Jayextee]

Do it, dude. Do it.

[dew]

Replacing BtSX music with silence or random music is something I can't wrap my head around. BtSX music is awesome, you heathens!

jario: I see you're unhappy with lack of challenge. Keep in mind that difficulty is "low" on purpose, because it's not aimed at the hardcore caste of players. Target difficulty was "first two eps of AV" and most of the maps stay within that limit. On the other hand I knew lack of challenge would be a problem with... our kind, heh. And since overall coop balance was mine to command, I tried to steer -solo-net towards being an additional difficulty skill above UV. With, you know, dick monster placement and such. :) Try it, you'll find it more up to your standards!

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP02 Postal Blowfish

Better than the previous one. Borders on mostly RL combat and explosive barrels. First, run for the rocket launcher while watching out for the mancubus that proves to be rather annoying. But also watching out for the hellknight and the teleporting demons. Nothing too interesting otherwise, although I scored a two-rocket arachnotron kill somewhere. I ended up going through a vent system to cheaply take out monsters from there, a nice strategy. Exit area after flipping the yellow switch had cacos who teleport behind you and can be somewhat problematic. Not for me, it's nothing an SSG can handle. Final Time 5:15.

[j4rio]

@dewww

I'm not sure I'd pick challenge as suitable word. Map doesn't have to be straight up murder for me to be fun at all, I can enjoy anything doom-esque, but I find some aspects more enjoyable than others, and if I play a map, thoughts I leave of it are basically just how I would envision changes to map so it'd lean towards 'better' in my eyes, as subjective as it may be. What these first two maps miss is... how can I call it... 'map interaction', yeah I just made that term up. Check for example death-destiny's map 2 of dr2008, and imagine chaingunners are former zombies - you won't necessarily have tough map, but definitely offering quite an experience in gameplay aspect. I hope that makes some more sense. Also I'll try redoing with solo-net, but I'll judge maps mainly based on how they work on casual UV.

[punnyone]

Map 2 - Postal Blowfish (Torn/Essel) - HMP skill

Nice short-ish map which is highlighted by the introduction of the rocket launcher, the secret air duct sequences, as well as the almost deathmatch-like feel of the level. I imagine it'd be a blast to play in coop. While my original argument about monster progression for this episode still stands (too soon for manc in level 2 IMO), I do enjoy the challenge that the level brings, especially when you find yourself running out of rockets and you have quite a few caco's around you. Quite a fun level to play.

[Tristan]

Playing continuous with saving only at level starts, Ultra-violence.

MAP01 - Back to Saturn X Radio Report - Esselfortium/Tarnsman
07:12, 72% kills, 66% secrets, 0 deaths

I like the silent starting area, as said before, it sort of emulates a "quiet before the storm" setting. I didn't find it too challenging, as a MAP01 should be. I agree that the berserk is kind of unnecessary, seeing as it was of no use to me whatsoever. I guess it's a nice source of health if that's needed. I thought the new palette was pretty cool, especially with how soulspheres look now. Naturally, what I'm most impressed with is the vanilla bridge. I'm going to have to take another look at that in the editor.
The music - composed by Essel - also fits pretty nicely as an opening track.

Eris gives this level 8/10!

MAP02 - Postal Blowfish - Torn/Esselfortium
06:43, 99% kills, 33% secrets, 1 death

First of all, I'd like to say I only died because I entered the level with 16 health, and a shotgunner caught me off guard. As I said earlier, great music - also by Essel, though sadly, I only got to hear that bit (I hope everyone knows what I'm talking about) once, due to the sound of the guns always going off >:( Maybe I should turn music volume up.
Gameplay wise, this level presents some great barrel frag opportunities, which is doubly satisfying when you use the rocket launcher given to you near the start of the level. This marks my first encounter with revenants, and some lucky dodging prevented me from dying a second time. I had a lot of fun in this level, mostly at the area in front of the two red doors. While playing this map, I did wish I could do LP's of this, it would probably get my opinions across better and easier.

Eris gives this level 9/10!

[dew]

@jario: i know where you're coming from, i'm just announcing that -solo-net was actually treated as a difficulty level for demanding customers. :) you can tell people a million times that HMP is the regular difficulty and UV is for powerplayers. will they listen? i bet most of them won't and then the guys overestimating their pain tolerance become annoyed with it. hiding an extra skill for experienced players kinda makes more sense with what doom (ports) let us do.

[Tarnsman]

pizzabob18 said:

Map 2 - Postal Blowfish (Torn/Essel) - HMP skill
(too soon for manc in level 2 IMO)

On UV Map 1 has everything but Cyber, Mastermind, and Vile.

[Memfis]

I'm on map10 right now and I gotta say I love how almost every map has a lot of rockets with -solo-net, definitely makes even very basic fights a lot more fun.

j4rio said:

'map interaction', yeah I just made that term up. Check for example death-destiny's map 2 of dr2008, and imagine chaingunners are former zombies - you won't necessarily have tough map, but definitely offering quite an experience in gameplay aspect.

You mean all the triggers, moving floors, opening areas, teleporting traps and other interesting stuff that happens on that map?

As for the btsx music, I like a few tracks but most of them are overcomplicated and too... melodramatic(?) for Doom midis imo. Occasionally such songs are fine but in this wad there are too many of them. I prefer wads with simplier, more upbeat midis that make me want to get right into action. But of course everything needs variety, so having just a few ambient, more calm or dramatic tracks is fine. HRMUS mixes all this rather well I think. :)

[j4rio]

Memfis said:

You mean all the triggers, moving floors, opening areas, teleporting traps and other interesting stuff that happens on that map?

Yup, don't tell me it doesn't add more value to that map. I don't mean it has to be to such an extent everywhere as in that very map, that's probably a little extreme, but at least it gets through my point.

[dew]

Memfis said:

As for the btsx music, I like a few tracks but most of them are overcomplicated and too... melodramatic(?) for Doom midis imo.

possible more proper terms: tribal, melancholic, tracker-like. it's not what you'd expect to go with techbases, i'll give you that, but they just sound too good to mute. :) someone once said btsx gave off unreal vibe and i think music fits that to a t.

oh and me, myself... i don't like maps that are too busy with dropping walls, dropping floors, pop-up monsters, teleport ambushes, switches triggering arena fights, all the time, relentlessly, etc etc. it's gimmicky and it completely gives up on making the maps an experience, imo. the maps become glorified bootcamp training tracks for demo runners and i don't think that's all doom maps should be about.

[cannonball]

j4rio said:

Yup, don't tell me it doesn't add more value to that map. I don't mean it has to be to such an extent everywhere as in that very map, that's probably a little extreme, but at least it gets through my point.

I guess it's about reaching a balance, for example you want your monster closets and teleport ambushes to actually surprise the player rather than them expecting them. I can't exactly say I'm good at that and probably fall into the same issue Dewww states.

[j4rio]

Sure, I don't mean it has to be that busy as that rather leans toward niche, but if nothing happens with map at all, I miss it.

[Ribbiks]

I think it's funny that what dew described as disliking is pretty much exactly what I look for in a map :P

so yeh, btsx. professional looking, some good tunes (cheers jim @ map05, 24), but gameplay-wise not at all my cup of Tea, Earl Grey, Hot.

[Memfis]

03 - demo - short and compact map. There is one very good area, I'm talking about this one obviously:

The rest really feels like just a filler in comparison, with very basic fights against mostly weak monsters. Maybe it should have been in the map01 slot instead, there it would feel appropriately simple to me.

btw I think Capellan always plays in silence so it's not like he has something against btsx's soundtrack.

[Capellan]

esselfortium said:

As an aside, the palette doesn't actually alter the gray, orange, or brown ranges, though oranges do get colormapped differently.

Then I guess I simply don't like the textures - the ones we've seen so far, anyway.

Tarnsman said:

The second lift is there because otherwise you would be able to see the hub area from the hallway and hit all sorts of overflows.

Why not eliminate the first lift? Is there a reason you need to go down twice, and not just once at the end?

Also, is there a way back up? I know you're told the exit is coming, but I'm not a fan of "no going back for goodies for you!". Players might have left the radsuit secret for after they've cleared the level, for instance, and not be able to go back for it.

dew said:

Replacing BtSX music with silence or random music is something I can't wrap my head around.

I turn music off or as close as possible in pretty much every game I play.