Why is smoking in moderation worse than drinking in moderation?

Graf Zahl said:

Funny that you always assume that your own pitiful opinion is the absolute truth. Nearly symptomatic for a both right wing conservatives and left wing liberals.

FTFY. They're both sides of the exact same coin. You are aware of the National Socialist party I assume? :P


And OP, I will agree that the anti-smoking ads are obnoxious as shit and the nanny state government (left wing in my state of Illinois, Graf) taking away business owner's rights to allow smoking in their shops without a democratic vote because our criminal governor felt it was the right thing to do is bullshit.

BUT smoking rates are dropping amongst youth and that's not just good, that's great. Smoking makes you stink as well as your home and the people around you, is expensive as hell (at a pack a day of Camel filters in Illinois I was spending ~$2080 a year - I switched to a cheaper brand and a cheaper state) and even if you don't get cancer you still eventually spend a great deal of time hacking and coughing every morning. Plus you're less productive overall since you can rarely work and smoke at the same time unless you work outside and not even then.

Sure, a cigarette every now and then probably won't hurt anymore than just breathing the air around you in a city or around a brush fire but cigarettes are like Pringles - "Once you pop you just can't stop." I've met some people who only smoke when they drink but that was a long ass time ago and why take the chance anyway?

So yeah, let the fad die out. Now I can at least use the phrase, "Smoking like it's going out of style." That may be amusing but it ain't cool, that's for sure. :)

tl;dr, I don't smoke. I think it's nasty, but I drink every now and then and don't think it's as harmful unless you get yourself into a seriously deep alcohol addiction. Also I might come across as a bit uppity, but that's not intentional. :p


The thing you have to remember is that once things were quite different. As my dad often said, when he first took up smoking in his teens (he's nearing 70 now) it was pretty much seen as socially unacceptable not to smoke. In time it'll likely die out altogether, but it's still early days so who knows?

I'm firmly in the non-smoking camp. A childhood of car trips in a smoke-filled car sorted that out. Ironically my dad used to hate it when my sis and I would pull our jumpers up over our noses and really got wound up when the windows were opened. As a result, everything smelled at home. And don't get me started on the amount of shit that used to drop out of the computer keyboard when I turned it upside down. Then there's the fact he would cough and hack so violently you'd have thought he was about to die. He finally gave it up about 10 years ago and has always said he wished he'd done so sooner. Good thing too, since he's got issues with his heart nowadays.
Personally I think smoking's just one of these things that becomes habit for those who do it, albeit a highly addictive one. Though I don't know how much it takes before that happens. I've only ever taken a drag from a cigarette once and that was while drunk a couple of years ago. It was still the most horrible thing I've ever tried. Wouldn't do it again in a million years.

Now I live in one of the so-called 'Nanny state' countries, that being the UK. And while I do agree that smokers get panned something awful for what is purely their choice, I'd have to say the ban to stop smoking in pubs, etc is one of the best things that's been done. I like being able to go out, come back and not have to throw my clothes in the wash because they stink of fags. It's bad enough getting a waft of it when I pass someone who smokes at my work. And smoker's breath? Ugh. The only thing that's worse is kissing a smoker. I've never 'noped' so much in my life the first and last time I did that!

As for drinking, I do every now and then. Most of the time it's a beer when I get home at the weekends or a couple glasses of whisky when I go see my dad. I know a couple of people who admit they've got a touch of alcohol addiction, but it's not doing nearly as much harm for them as smoking as far as I can see. That they're aware is a good thing. But it's not something I make a habit of. And yes, I've had my share of rough nights out. But I'm what most people at work would call a gym freak, even if that's coming from people who are pissing their money up the wall every weekend without fail. But I like it this way. And hey, the hard work in the gym is paying off, I'm fit and healthy I've got a car to pay off, run, and insure and I've got a fucking good load of savings building up with the intent of buying myself a place in the next 2-3 years. I'd rather that than be the guy in the office who has no money, a beer belly and a face covered in pockmarks and spots.

So...that went on a bit. Sorry.

Job said:

Anyway, if you're of legal age neither is entirely banned (at least in the US), so stop trying to convince some anonymous internet audience and enjoy a nip or a fag.

Dunno if this was directed at me, but I wasn't trying to convince anyone of anything.

Johnatone said:

FTFY. They're both sides of the exact same coin. You are aware of the National Socialist party I assume? :P

National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus), more commonly known as Nazism (/ˈnɑːtsɪzəm, ˈnæ-/[1]), is the ideology and practice associated with the 20th-century German Nazi Party and Nazi state as well as other far-right groups.

The term "National Socialism" arose out of attempts to create a nationalist redefinition of "socialism", as an alternative to both internationalist Marxist socialism and free market capitalism.

'National Socialism' has about as much to do with socialism as the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea has to do with democracy.

Caffeine Freak said:

Dunno if this was directed at me, but I wasn't trying to convince anyone of anything.

No it was directed at the OP.

Never smoked, never will.

And Mordeth and Job pretty much covered it. What bothers me though is, why do companies keep selling cigarettes/cigars if they know that stuff's going to kill you gradually? Joe Camel was a bad influence to children...

esselfortium said:

'National Socialism' has about as much to do with socialism as the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea has to do with democracy.

You are correct in this sir, although as you see even if that definition you provided it shows the powers that be will cherry pick things they like to force upon the people whether we agree or not. I won't derail the thread, but I'm interested in the discussion so I'll start a blog when I get home. :)

1. Second-hand smoke. Second-hand drinking doesn't really exists, the worst is having to stand a drunkard's fetid beer-breath but it's not as dangerous as actually drinking alcohol.
2. Alcohol is addictive, but nicotine is a lot more so.

I ain't afraid of no topic hijack! Australia, please explain this insanity! Is that reverse satire? Satire squared? I bet everyone in the production was high as a kite, heh.

http://www.adweek.com/adfreak/saatchi-saatchi-defends-its-much-ridiculed-stoner-sloth-anti-marijuana-ads-168760

dew said:

I ain't afraid of no topic hijack! Australia, please explain this insanity! Is that reverse satire? Satire squared? I bet everyone in the production was high as a kite, heh.

http://www.adweek.com/adfreak/saatchi-saatchi-defends-its-much-ridiculed-stoner-sloth-anti-marijuana-ads-168760

Its funny how much a Fake Sloth looks like a "real" Hippie :

Those ads are really bad, so bad, that I can't believe they want to promote intolerant discriminating behaviour and cruelty to animals in teens.

And no one is like that when they're high from cannabis anyway.. but they may be when they are drunk from alcohol. And the cigarettes that you buy from shop, just make you weak and take your life away. No point smoking them at all.

"When you're high you can do everything you normally do just as well, you just realize it's not worth the fucking effort."

-Bill Hicks

Obsidian said:

"When you're high you can do everything you normally do just as well, you just realize it's not worth the fucking effort."
-Bill Hicks

Not at all. You will be slow in thought, and reaction times.

Jimi said:

- And no one is like that when they're high from cannabis anyway..
- they may be when they are drunk from alcohol.
- And the cigarettes that you buy from shop, just make you weak and take your life away.

This is the pro- Weed bullshit which makes people realize that Weed is not worth fighting for in terms of "freedom".

- You slow down : respond slower, think slower, move slower.
- Some of the videos do resemble alcohol induced stupidity.
- Cannabis also burns your lungs, smokes them, destroys your cells, and might trigger mutation during the healing process.

To be blunt... you are not functioning at a normal mental or physical level when High on Cannabis. A cannabis user is not better than cigarette smokers, or a person drinking Alcohol to get drunk. A lot of stoners fool themselves into believing that they are above Alcohol or Cigarettes to justify themselves.

I'm also not particularly pro-weed. Boasting it as a better booze or ciggies alternative is just stupid. There's also a lot of ongoing medical research showing correlation between induction of schizophrenia in predisposed people and cannabis usage.

How does cannabis burn my lungs if I eat it? Sure it might (do something unexpected) if some dumbass has spiked it with something to make it weigh more, look more potent, to make it feel more potent or be more addictive. And none of these would happen if it was legal, and people could grow it themselves or to buy it from more trustyworthy sellers.. of course it might still happen anyway if greedy people pump the soil full of shit that makes it grow faster/bigger/more potent, but turns the plants into semi-poison.

And how much mental illness from cannabis use would happen if it was legal and there was no need to hide from others when using it, etc?

And about slowness.. cannabis doesn't make anyone that slow, or if it does, it's some super high amount and/or very long term user that use it every day. Very unlikely for a teenager to do/be that. And pretty dumb to over do it like that.

Jimi said:

And about slowness.. cannabis doesn't make anyone that slow, or if it does, it's some super high amount and/or very long term user that use it every day. Very unlikely for a teenager to do/be that.

You cant generalize Cannabis, just like you cant generalize alcohol. One person can take a lot of it, the other goes down to the ground after just a litle of it. There are people who can barely get up on their feet after a joint, there are people whom can barely talk after a few pufs... It highly depends on the individual.

And then you wrote about "teens". The type of humans known for drinking until they die, and low self restraint... so unless that Teen is a young adult aged 18 then he or she wouldnt even come close to ever having legal "weed" so thats not even a point, And young adults between their 18 and 25 are even worse. ;)

That newspost said the ads were intended for teens...

I haven't met anyone who wouldn't be able to walk or talk after using some cannabis. Maybe if the person goes into a trance, they might not talk or walk normally. Just like if you go into a dream, you don't talk or walk normally. And if a person is in a trance or a dream, you shouldn't wake them up, unless there's some emergency.

And because there's lots of crapaganda and bad education, people don't know what they're doing or what the other people are doing. And because people are stupid/etc, they'll believe anything some trusted authority person might say about whatever. And someone who actually knows something real, can't say anything, because the methods used to acquire the knowledge are illegal.

Jimi said:

And how much mental illness from cannabis use would happen if it was legal and there was no need to hide from others when using it, etc?

That's a completely irrelevant factor. If the rumors about a certain cannabinoid (that's not THC) contained in cannabis supposedly triggering schizophrenia end up proven, simply more people being able to obtain weed would mean increase in documented mental illnesses. The susceptibility is only noted in genetically predisposed, but that's a hazard to rely on nonetheless. But hey, everyone is free to ruin their bodies however they see fit.

Jimi said:

I haven't met anyone who wouldn't be able to walk or talk after using some cannabis.

When Stoned people will feel tired, notice that their limbs respond slower, etc. Some people get stoned at a faster rate than others. The problem there is : there actally are people whom will get stoned to the point of not being able to get up from very little weed at all.

To quote a guy which i knew and who smoked weed since his 13 :
"its all up to your body its resistance. some people can barely finish half a joint"

I am also going to quote a site by some weed fanatics ;

Some individuals may display a lack of motivation or activity at this level (lethargic). A burn-out may occur when coming down from the high (feeling) itself.

Smoking so much Pot that you are glued to whatever seat you are in (the couch is a fine example)

weed is the best
forget the rest

It's a better buzz than cigarettes and the hangover is far more tolerable than alcohol.

Probably anyone who is tired is slower. And it's not cannabis that glues people into chairs or whatever. It's the very nature of people gluing themselves to anything interesting. This world wouldn't exist without that behaviour, or at least there wouldn't be any people here.

Well, I got my mental illnesses from it being illegal. Starting to hear voice(s) because of using cannabis may be a desireable result... but I guess regular people think they have gone insane.

The thing about weed is, I don't care whether or not you like it whether or not's its healthy, as neither of those things mandate use of alcohol and tobacco, so why should weed, a drug very much in the same scope, be treated differently? We've already had this discussion on DW before - if we're going to start banning things based on health risks, say goodbye to every single fast food joint.

Alcohol related car accidents and nicotine related lung cancer exponentially outweigh any of the common risks associated with marijuana use, so if one of the three should be legal, it's the friggin' pot. All 3 should be legal, regulated and taxed.

Prohibition does not work.

While I don't really see a point towards substance use, period, it's pretty easy to tell that marijuana is just flat-out bullied. It pretty much started when people realized you could do practically everything with the plant, and so the ... cotton, I believe? industry in the US lobbied against it, managing to get it banned. Then cue the 70s and the anti-drug frenzy that came after it; completely justified, but then you have this substance that was already illegal and counted as a drug. It's no surprise nobody bothered to actually examine whether or not it really needed to count as an illegal drug.

Granted, I don't really mind if it stays illegal. I'd like to see smoking go with it, actually, and I wouldn't really mind seeing alchohol and nicotine in general tag along.

MFG38 said:

Because the damage that alcohol causes is less permanent as opposed to the damage caused by smoking.

Either way, they don't supplement your body with nutritions to grow on.
They destroy our bodies, bit by bit.
Anti-smoke are a good thing, as they tend to show why smoking is bad. Some people will take it seriously, and try to quit, but most won't... eventually they will.

Just don't smoke or/and drink. That's like stabbing yourself everyday, without the pain (but the body is in pain).

Jimi said:

Well, I got my mental illnesses from it being illegal. Starting to hear voice(s) because of using cannabis may be a desireable result... but I guess regular people think they have gone insane.

You've got to be kidding.

Did this thread just reveal the Doomers that smoke/drink/recreational usage of special substances?

Is it really worth it? The smoking/drinking?

I support public smoking bans and heavy anti-smoking propaganda simply because anything that annoys hardcore_gamer must be a good thing.

j4rio said:

You've got to be kidding.

Even when I'm joking I'm serious and I'll laugh for anything.


Using special substances isn't necessary. They can help you get started or to give you a boost, but ultimately you should be as clear headed as possible. Special substances damage the body, and cigarettes and alcohol do so much damage that they're practically useless. And some substances may just kill you on the first go if you didn't prepare them right.

But all you really need is, to be quiet and shutdown your thinking. Meditation is a good way to do it. I just tried and after a while it was quiet and I started feeling kind of funny and high, kind of like being in a dream.

FireFish said:

When Stoned people will feel tired, notice that their limbs respond slower, etc. Some people get stoned at a faster rate than others. The problem there is : there actally are people whom will get stoned to the point of not being able to get up from very little weed at all.

Speaking from personal experience, I have felt all of those (sans not getting up) and it was my very first hit but I made the mistake of inhaling as if smoking hookah. The result is me feeling dopey all night, even at the computer. The type I had was a really strong strain and I coughed viciously for a minute or so after that, and it was from my brother at home who supplied it.

And for the record, I don't smoke cigs or cigars, they're both smelly and gross. Hookah every once in a while with some of my friends but that's about it. I do drink decent to good craft beer or ale occasionally (Had Gulden Draak earlier this week), none of that piss-water garbage like Bud or Coors. The only mass marketed ones I can tolerate is Corona (better) and Pabst.

I agree, in theory anyway, that it would be best if substance use wasn't a thing.. There's a reason it is though, and it's the same reason so many people take anti depressants and shit - Some people feel that they need something like that to merely get through everyday life. For some people, it's regular kicks of caffeine, for some people it's the relaxing effects of marijuana, and hell some people just legitimately have chemical imbalances in their brain.

In a society that functioned better on all ends, substance use would reduce exponentially. Hopefully we'll get there one day, but until then, it's best to avoid black markets that put the sellers and consumers at high risk unnecessarily while simultaneously cheating the gooberment out of kajillions of tax dollars.