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A.Gamma
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Most wads have ambushes that make monsters appear out of nowhere, be it teleporting into the room, opening a monster closet etc.

So is there a particular type of ambush you prefer? Or enjoy making? Any kind that you hate?

Old Post 09-10-12 09:53 #
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Technician
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Monster closets are easier to make.

Old Post 09-10-12 10:08 #
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cannonball
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In the end I don't really have a preference, the least favourite is probably the linedef action 19 (monsters appear immediately), but I do use it for areas where monsters would be able to move and cause disruption before you reach that particular area. In those cases I trigger the sector well before you reach the area so it's not really a trap.
In the end you need to mix the types up to keep things unpredictable. Monster closets, teleport traps.

Old Post 09-10-12 10:18 #
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A.Gamma
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Technician said:
Monster closets are easier to make.


Granted, although there are some places (like big outdoor areas) where they don't really work.

Old Post 09-10-12 10:36 #
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Phml
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I prefer obvious ambushes. Monster closets tend to be just that, but not necessarily, and you can make some fairly telegraphed teleport ambushes as well.

Maps where the gameplay relies primarily on surprise are inevitably either too hard on the first playthrough or too easy on further replays.

Old Post 09-10-12 10:59 #
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Obsidian
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Heh, I'm sort of the opposite: it's nice to have a decent surprise, provided it isn't too overwhelming. The obvious traps (eg: beserk=horde of demons) kind of get predictable after a while.

On a side note, Revenants still scare the heck out of me if I'm not expecting them.

Old Post 09-10-12 11:35 #
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ComicMischief
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You know, I don't mind as long as I'm not met with an ambush EVERY... FUCKING... TIME... I pick up a key. Variety, guys. It goes a long way.

Having said that, teleport-ambushes are great for repopulating an already-explored area if there's any kind of backtracking required.

Old Post 09-10-12 11:46 #
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Maes
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Those that I can disrupt.

Old Post 09-10-12 11:52 #
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printz
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Technician said:
Monster closets are easier to make.
Monster closets are ridiculous. How are they supposed to breathe in those closed dark spaces?

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Old Post 09-10-12 12:16 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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Monster closets let you give the player health or other items, and open new routes through the map. If they're literally just a box with monsters in them (which I know I'm guilty of over using), they're not very interesting, but done well they're much better than teleporter or instant appearance ambushes.

Old Post 09-10-12 12:20 #
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Harmata
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I like ambushes that span across several rooms or areas, they really give the feel that Hell is pissed and wants to get you.

Old Post 09-10-12 12:23 #
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DeathevokatioN
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I like surprises, but really you only get surprised once and then you'd need to make sure the ambush has replay value for future playthroughs.

Old Post 09-10-12 12:35 #
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Vorpal
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While I used them in the past, I've grown to just dislike ambushes in general. This is probably because of Doom3 where the entire game was a continuous ambush.

Old Post 09-10-12 14:53 #
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printz
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I really like ambushes that recycle corpses.

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Old Post 09-10-12 14:54 #
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Retog
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I like traps that are non-existent.

Old Post 09-10-12 14:55 #
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Jimi
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How about decorate some key/weapon/powerup area with all kinds of ominous stuffs, so that player expects a trap, but then nothing happens. Player walks away from that area feeling safe, then when he least expects it.. BAM! hit by a falling piano!

Old Post 09-10-12 15:00 #
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Gez
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printz said:
Monster closets are ridiculous. How are they supposed to breathe in those closed dark spaces?

They teleport demonic air from Hell into their lungs.


Seriously, are you going to object to monster closets because of biological considerations about demons/undead/magical mutants/robots and whatever else is typically faced in Doom-engine games and mods?


Maes said:
Those that I can disrupt.


Yeah, it's great when you can find a secret passage or something to eliminate opponents in a safer way before the "intended" confrontation.

A good example is in Heretic E1M2, where you can surprise ambushing undead warriors.

Old Post 09-10-12 15:12 #
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printz
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Gez said:

Seriously, are you going to object to monster closets because of biological considerations about demons/undead/magical mutants/robots and whatever else is typically faced in Doom-engine games and mods?

Someone should make a survival coop scenario where some players need to stay in the box until the right moment.

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Old Post 09-10-12 15:51 #
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Xaser
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ComicMischief said:
You know, I don't mind as long as I'm not met with an ambush EVERY... FUCKING... TIME... I pick up a key.

This. I'm actually elated when I pick up a key and there's not a bunch of teleporting beasties / monster closets opening. It's like a birthday surprise. :P

Old Post 09-10-12 20:45 #
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TimeOfDeath
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Every single linedef you cross should release more monsters.

Old Post 09-10-12 21:22 #
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ComicMischief
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TimeOfDeath said:
Every single linedef you cross should release more monsters.


Actually, as a one-level gimmick, this could potentially be neat. Tiring to make though; and would get really old if used for more than one level. ;)

Old Post 09-10-12 21:51 #
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Krispy
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TimeOfDeath said:
Every single linedef you cross should release more monsters.


This creates a paradox doesn't it?

Old Post 09-10-12 21:51 #
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A.Gamma
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printz said:
I really like ambushes that recycle corpses.


Yeah releasing an Archvile or two on in a room full of dead foes is an excellent way to make ambushes the player won't expect (or at least i never do).

Old Post 09-10-12 22:54 #
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scalliano
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printz said:
I really like ambushes that recycle corpses.


Say what you like about the mod, but Legacy Of Suffering did that in style. The first map has you dander around the military sleeping quarters with the dead bodies piled on top of each other. You grab the kay and just as you are about to leave they proceed to get up and start putting holes in you. And not an Archie in sight.

Old Post 09-11-12 00:09 #
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A.Gamma
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scalliano said:


Say what you like about the mod, but Legacy Of Suffering did that in style. The first map has you dander around the military sleeping quarters with the dead bodies piled on top of each other. You grab the kay and just as you are about to leave they proceed to get up and start putting holes in you. And not an Archie in sight.



Heh, that was a really nasty (and really creative) ambush, wouldn't believed it was possible if hadn't experienced it myself.

Old Post 09-11-12 04:54 #
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Snakes
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Mix it up. You have dropping floors, doors, raising and crushing ceilings, teleports, insta-move sectors (used with restraint), monsters rising from liquids, damaging sectors, and hundreds of combinations therein (UAC Ultra is a good example of this). I try to vary not only what traps I use, but how often I use them. UR's second episode is far less trap-oriented and more about tense, map-long battles.

Seriously, this keeps things interesting.

Old Post 09-11-12 05:47 #
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DeathevokatioN
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Snakes said:
Mix it up. You have dropping floors, doors, raising and crushing ceilings, teleports, insta-move sectors (used with restraint), monsters rising from liquids, damaging sectors, and hundreds of combinations therein (UAC Ultra is a good example of this). I try to vary not only what traps I use, but how often I use them. UR's second episode is far less trap-oriented and more about tense, map-long battles.

Seriously, this keeps things interesting.

Totally agree. If only Doomworld had a "like" button. :P

Old Post 09-11-12 15:15 #
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RabidWolverine
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Considering that ambushes are ways to be challenging to the player and it's meant to kill them I like risen monster closets which holds chaingunners or revenants.

Old Post 09-12-12 05:37 #
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MSPaintR0cks
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Only when the amount of appearing monsters is relatively low. Getting stuck with hundreds of monsters on a narrow hallway or room is super annoying. :/

Old Post 09-12-12 15:00 #
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hex11
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Damn, now I gotta remember to add ventilation shafts in all my monster closets. I've come to always expect SHTF situation on E1M3 BK grab (lights out, horde of monsters comin' at you) or else it feels like a letdown... Although, it might be interesting to have some empty closets open up (just some corpses inside, wtf?), or even a jammed mechanism that only works partway, and there they are: all pissed and nowhere to go.

Old Post 09-13-12 05:17 #
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