Do you think Plutonia is hard or unfair

Sometimes unfair (honestly, maybe only that trap in map 2), but Plutonia is definitely fun :D

51 minutes ago, tchkb said:

It's unfairly easy.

On UV?

Nothing that a bit of good ol' savescumming couldn't fix.

10 hours ago, uwwaves said:

Do you think plutonia is hard or just unfair it's one of my favorite iwads.

I think its mostly easy even map31 i think its unfair but easy still but im not sure if people consider it hard or unfair. what do you think?

Plutonia is the original challenge wad, its purpose is to be hard, to test you, especially on UV. If you're playing on UV you may want to consider playing it on HMP and then coming back to UV for a second run. Plutonia is endlessly replayable like few wads before or since.

1 hour ago, Can't play on Nightmare said:

 

On UV?

Don't start with that shit.

1 hour ago, Can't play on Nightmare said:

On UV?

If you struggle with Plutonia on UV you're gonna struggle on HMP or even HNTR, it has mediocre skill level implementation.

Plutonia is sweet and easy on UV.

20 hours ago, Woolie Wool said:

Plutonia is the original challenge wad, its purpose is to be hard, to test you, especially on UV. If you're playing on UV you may want to consider playing it on HMP and then coming back to UV for a second run. Plutonia is endlessly replayable like few wads before or since.

Also this.

Even the Casali bros. said it was mainly designed to push their skills and every time they thought it got too easy thet cranked up the difficulty by a notch. Needless to say they also stated that they had "very little sympathy" for those playing on UV and complaining about difficulty - which may have been true for the almost nonexistent standards of the time - Plutonia being hard I mean -, but saying that Plutonia is still hard nowadays just plain ignores over 25 years of hindsight.

It's not 1993 anymore where the FPS genre was nothing but a blurry, unclearly defined landscape when people started playing games like Doom for the very first time, which also had a small novelty factor to them, we live in different times and there's actual standards in place nowadays.

For Plutonia, normal uv is more than enough.

It is not not doom 2 after all

Er, sorry!-- can you repeat what you said? I'm too busy painting the floor red!

...no, not too hard. It has some difficult places, but strategy is good. It's good fun. I like it :)

5 hours ago, Can't play on Nightmare said:

On UV?

This is to the point that is not simply annoying. You catch every chance to complain (maybe not, but the amount has changed your mere expression to complaints to me) Plutonia on UV is hard. On the other thread, you said other people attacked you. It's because you keep thinking in your own way and have no intend to improve yourself. You said you can't beat E2M6 on Nightmare!. I told you to learn void glide, but you just ask me back if not void glide. What can I say then. Just improve your skill to the point where you can do E2M6 glitchless. That's it. Even though we all have the freedom to express our opinions, you still need to control your expression since there's still a certain rule set to make this world running.

I must say, most of the Doomworld members are very kind. I have social anxiety, and English is not my first language. I did feel quite anxious when I posted my first few things here. They didn't say anything about I shouldn't say anything because my English is bad. Or, I asked some ignorant questions, and they were happy to answer without saying anything bad. Yeah, it seems it contradicts to what I did here at the beginning, but this is already beyond the point of this. The point here is that you seem not to care about what others said to you and just move on with your own "rules". On the other thread, you said you feel everything is boring or whatever. The only advice I have is to seek a therapist. NIH put down a really constructive post there, but I guess you didn't even read it before the whole thread got dumped. Poor NIH (nah, I knew she likes this :P).

Then, on topic, Plutonia is easy, for me. However, I respect others' opinions. Every reason could be a reason even though that reason doesn't make Plutonia hard for me. For example, there are too many teleporting Barons on Map20 can be a reason, or the mappers like to shut the door behind you and throw a bunch of monsters at your face can be another reason. Whenever you provide these reasons, I respect that and I think they are reasonable. However, just saying Plutonia is "unfair" without a reason is not a good way to discuss things. That's why I want to hear OP's thought about Map31's unfairness instead of just labeling it unfair. Think of it, if you just say "Casali brothers are d**ks since Plutonia is hard to you", what beneficial discussion will it be?

It's really just traps, there's almost no actual difficulty.

I've always liked Civvie's take.

"It's just infamous for being, at that point, one of the hardest mapsets ever created. By today's standards it's nothing. See people make wads all the time now that are unrelentingly difficult because everyone's had 25 years to get good. I tell you what though, we may never have gotten good without the Plutonia Experiment."

7 hours ago, Major Arlene said:

Bud, didnt you just have a thread about plutonia closed?

yup im pretty sure because people where arguing

3 minutes ago, Super Mighty G said:

I've always liked Civvie's take.

 

"It's just infamous for being, at that point, one of the hardest mapsets ever created. By today's standards it's nothing. See people make wads all the time now that are unrelentingly difficult because everyone's had 25 years to get good. I tell you what though, we may never have gotten good without the Plutonia Experiment."

Civvie has a awesome channel

I just read every comment ill continue to read them fir a while but try not to get this thread closed.

5 hours ago, Deadwing said:

Sometimes unfair (honestly, maybe only that trap in map 2), but Plutonia is definitely fun :D

i agree plutonia is my favorite iwad

Can you also stop spamming with replies? Thanks.

Sorry for my random shitpost reply which honestly shouldn't have been posted as it only added to the flamewar. I was just a little irritated that people keep asking this exact same question as if the topic of Plutonia hasn't already beaten to death. Which makes me think - perhaps it would be nice if someone of very high knowledge and renown made an article thoroughly analyzing the subject in an unbiased way that could be referred to in the future?

1 minute ago, tchkb said:

 

Such an aggressive defense of me is unnecessary and honestly uncalled for. My reply was just a random shitpost / play on words made on the spot, which honestly shouldn't have been posted as it only added to the flamewar. I was just a little irritated that people keep asking this exact same question as if the topic of Plutonia hasn't already beaten to death. Which makes me think - perhaps it would be nice if someone of very high knowledge and renown made an article thoroughly analyzing the subject in an unbiased way that could be referred to in the future?

I'm also frankly a slightly above average member of this community, so there's no justification for defending me as if I were some holy figure.

Yeah the defense was uncalled for

It's not really that hard by today's standards, because by this late date, just about everything that comes out is at least twice as hard as Plutonia. It's got some annoying moments here and there, sure, but it really doesn't give me much trouble anymore, and I can't consider it as difficult as it was going back years ago, especially since just about every new wad I download expects way more out of me. Plutonia is, in part, responsible for this being the norm, and was once hard as fuck, but it isn't anymore.

@tchkbI changed that and I hope that didn't offend you. I got annoyed by people like to point at somebody else's nose (including my nose) and ask "do you play on UV" these kind of things since this is a very ignorant assumption that the other person did something different, so they didn't experience it properly in order to make them "easy".

BTW, you are at least a holy figure to me. This can't be changed. :P

Ok ok okokok, we've got a BUNCH of people in here flexing about how easy-peasy Plutonia is and talking about how community wads have gotten way harder than it on the whole. I'm just gonna have to call BS on that, because I'm 99% sure I could kick most of your butts in a deathmatch*, so how the fock are you all finding Plutonia so damn easy??

I never had this trouble with Memento Mori or Scythe (and certainly never with UDoom or D2). Granted, I know they're both very old sets at this point, but I only died 3 times in total on my first ever Scythe playthrough like 10 frickin' years ago, even getting through the last 3 maps without all that much trouble - maps which most people bitch to no end about for being "too hard".

Yeah, the end of Scythe has a whoole lotta meat for you to cut through, but every encounter is totally and completely fair. Not so in Plutonia. It's difficulty is more akin to someone pulling the rug out from under you, constantly. For me, it's the ultimate proof that slaughtermaps/monster count are by no means the end-all-be-all of Doom difficulty, because most slaughtermaps have much more fair combat scenarios where the player has time and resources to react to what the fuck is around them. Not this "haha you're in the middle of the room with literally 0 cover spots, enjoy 10 chaingunners" crap.

Was I just playing like shit last time I tried to beat Plutonia? Do I just have awful reaction times? Surely than can't be it, I don't struggle much on most of the wads I play - even new ones - and I always hold my own in public deathmatch servers, so.. what the hell gives? Where the fuck are you guys finding cover when those stupid-ass chaingunner traps get sprung every 5 feet?!

Also, FWIW, Go 2 It is the most fun Plutonia map by a country mile. Completely fair and balanced, no rug-pulling maneuvers.

2 hours ago, Arbys550 said:

It's really just traps, there's almost no actual difficulty.

2 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

I'm just gonna have to call BS on that, because I'm 99% sure I could kick must of your butts in a deathmatch*, so how the fock are you all finding Plutonia so damn easy??

You, of all people, should know that DM is a totally different skill than normal Doom PvE.  I've seen videos of you DMing and I would rank your difficulty above that of a Cyberdemon horde.

Hard? Yes.

Unfair? Some parts definitely have questionable design at best (and imo map11 is a travesty).

You see, there's a reason the obituary for killing someone with a minigun in UT is "%k's Minigun turned %o into a leaky piece of meat". It stems back from eras bygone...

Plutonia was piss man, Evilution is the one with the most annoying hitscanner use

@Doomkid thank you for your honest opinion! It's hard for us, newbies, to share struggle with Plutonia here. If you dare say that the wad is a bit cocky sometimes and difficult overall, you'll get ten of replies like "lol, I've beaten Plutonia with my feet. It's very E A S Y".

I'm a big fan of Plutonia; and its two community sequels; and regularly show up in threads to champion it.

This being said, I'm gonna concur with @Doomkid on calling BS. Okay, so it's not nearly near the apex of difficult DOOM wads, but Plutonia is difficult. And it is unfair and mean-spirited in places; y'all really going to tell me the coverless Archviles on MAP03 (just to reiterate, the THIRD FUCKING MAP OF THIRTY) don't wreck your shit if you aren't careful or you're having a bad day? Doubt it.

But y'see, that unfair meanness is exactly why I think highly of Plutonia. I've likened it to an arcade game before; although a fair amount of the game can be theoretically beaten blind with reactions and skills alone, rote-learning the encounters and traps will help you a great deal. Indeed, it's to DOOM what The Lost Levels is to Super Mario Bros. -- without being Kaizo Mario. Or Okuplok. Whatever, man. You beat the other iWADs, it's the logical next step; and potentially a gateway drug to harder substances.

But, oh man, is it good. <3 

18 minutes ago, Jayextee said:

Indeed, it's to DOOM what The Lost Levels is to Super Mario Bros. -- without being Kaizo Mario. Or Okuplok.

The perfect analogy. I'm one of the biggest Mario-heads you'll meet, and I have those exact love/hate feelings toward the Lost Levels for the same reason! Like with Plutonia I like it enough to own a hard copy, but I've never actually beaten it legitimately. I have completed Plutonia in co-op and I've cheated my way through Lost Levels, but ultimately both of them still have me beat to this day.