What's something about Doom that you absolutely hate?

[Biodegradable]

5 hours ago, Jello said:

Yeah know, I agree with @Doomkid. Hate is such an extremely strong word, and it seems to only cause problems further down the line. I try not to hate, or even actively dislike things in my life, because then the negative things pre-occupy my time. Everyone would be wise to listen to him.

 

Bah, you're both just arguing semantics. "Hate" has been used as a synonym for "dislike" in the common vernacular for as long as I've been alive. I very much doubt everyone here is foaming at the mouth in an uncontrollable rage while posting about how they hate being jump-scared by a well-placed Archie and getting their butts scorched. Git outta here, ya gosh-darn nitpickers! ;^)

Edited August 10, 2021 by Biodegradable

[dpJudas]

5 hours ago, Jello said:

But with the Revenants hitting you with missiles (or even punching you), it just doesn't make much sense to have that much variance, 70hp is quite a gap. With the hitscanners, I can understand the variance. Maybe that time the shotgunner hit you in the face, the other time he winged your shoulder. But a rocket should be within a reasonable gap, it's not going to take away 10hp if it hits me in the shin and 80 if it's in the face. I think a nice 30 to 60 balance would be better. My opinion. The RNG is interesting in Doom, and it's part of the fun, especially in the original levels. But damn it can get annoying.

In my opinion the much higher RNG in 90's shooters are what makes them so much more fun than modern titles. Predictable is boring - the fact that you don't know if that revenant will own you if you make the slightest of mistake makes you far more alert when you spot one. Just like poker, shooters are more fun when you sometimes dominate even if it wasn't really your doing. That means players of all skill levels gets to experience dominance, while the modern formulae often only lets the e-sports skill level players have fun.

 

My personal gripe with the revenants is actually more that once the missiles decide to home me they never stop no matter for how long I circle around them.

[Scypek2]

7 hours ago, Dirk said:

 

Which ones are those? Come to think of it, which Wolf levels were made by which mapper?

 

I remember seeing detailed information about map authorship, but I don't remember where it was... but I do remember that E1 and E2 were made entirely by Tom Hall, most of E3 was made by Romero except for a few final maps which were also by Tom Hall, E4 was all Tom Hall again, E5 was all Romero, and E6 was a mishmash with two maps notably made by Bobby Prince. Here they are in the official hintbook:

 

 

 

E6L3 is a lot more enjoyable to go through, in part thanks to featuring more than one texture.

 

 

[Doomkid]

1 hour ago, Biodegradable said:

Bah, you're both just arguing semantics. "Hate" has been used as a synonym for "dislike" in the common vernacular for as long as I've been alive. I very much doubt everyone here is foaming at the mouth in an uncontrollable rage while posting about how they hate being jump-scared by a well-placed Archie and getting their butts scorched. Git outta here, ya gosh-darn nitpickers! ;^)

You mock our pooh-poohing of the term “hate”, but there’s some words that have untold power which shouldn’t be wielded lightly! And hey, now you’re nitpicking our nitpicking!! 😛

[pcorf]

When you pick up a new weapon in the middle of a big fight, you can lose lots of health during this sequence. Also slime trails and other node issues such as enemies stuck in floors.

 

Also in Vanilla

- Tutti Frutti

- R_FindPlane: no more visplanes

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by pcorf

[TheGreenZap]

I really don't like the pistol at all. I just feel like I'm slowly firing pieces of corn until I get a real weapon.

The rifle in Rowdy Rudy 2 is the best starter weapon ever created for Doom in my opinion.

 

[Rudolph]

I could give a boring answer, like hitscanners, the Blursphere or the Revenant's homing missiles, but instead, I will go with the fact that they are not making games like this anymore. :(

[UAC guy]

How annoying it is to make an invasion map/GZDoom multiplayer(yes i know zandronum exists, its kinda outdated tbh)

[Test Tickle]

Angled midtextures

[Chainie]

savegame buffer overrun

Also i hate when the whole room have blinking light effect. It makes my eyes hurt

Edited August 11, 2021 by Chainie

[Naarok0fkor]

...people who don't play Doom....

[ICID]

14 hours ago, Plank_Guy_89 said:

Infinitely Tall Actors, do people even like it? I assume people tolerate it because it's more accurate

 

I like infinite height actors! Monsters SHOULD be able to block your path and halt your movement, and it makes Cacodemons a different type of threat from, say, the similar behavior and health of the landlocked Hell Knight. It depends how they're used in a map, like anything else, but I hate playing without them.

 

I feel like so many of the complaints I see about old Doom's mechanics basically boil down to "I don't like taking damage, I don't like being inconvenienced, I don't like that the game is unfair sometimes." But I LIKE having challenges because it's fun to overcome them and it's fun to be surprised by them. That's why I will forever defend 80 damage revenant missiles and leaky radiation suits and the like.

 

To answer the actual topic, I guess I don't "hate" anything about Doom itself, but I hate some of the things mappers do. 90s PWADs that only let you have the basic shotgun and expect you to shoot mid- and high-tier monsters with it are a particular pain. Also The Citadel is butt.

[Yumheart]

People calling Pain Elementals, Archviles, Chaingunners, even Revenants (!) badly designed.
I know, they can be a pain in the ass, but that's what makes them work, folks!

[DedUnicorns]

Definitely the infinitely tall monsters




oh yeah, and e2m6

[Mystic 256]

- The specialized boss death tags are only hardcoded in vanilla doom to only work on certain maps (e1m8, e2m8, e3m8, e4m6, e4m8, map07) 

- also secret maps in vanilla also only being accessible from certain maps (E1M3, E2M5, E3M6, E4M2, Map15, Map31) and only being on certain map slots (E1M9, E2M9, E3M9, E4M9, Map31, Map32)  

- Blockmap bug making hard to hit enemies 

- Infinite Monster/Decoration Height being annoying especially when flying enemies are in the room or walking off a ledge

- the gaps in stock texture library when your doing a mapping challenge where u can only use stock textures, theres a bunch of textures that would make sense to be stock textures in the iwads that sadly aren't stock textures like waterfalls (unless plutonia is the iwad your mapping with), lavafalls, brown liquid falls, and stuff like that

- as a mapper, making good combat in a map just being the most frustrating, difficult, and time consuming part of making a map, its really really difficultly to make combat that works properly or as I intend and isn't easy to cheese (i spend so many hours on making the combat because its hardest part to get right and I really need more help)

[El Franko]

GZDoom

[Andromeda]

12 hours ago, Dirk said:

Which ones are those? Come to think of it, which Wolf levels were made by which mapper?

This page has map authorship info, if you're curious.

[Absolute Lambda]

Default Doom Builder Textures (STARTAN and that other FLAT)

[Wraith777]

It's not what do YOU hate most about doom, it's what DooM hates most about YOU...

But, seriously, only thing I do hate about doom is that I don't have enough time to even play it these days (let alone mapping).

[pcorf]

17 hours ago, Snaxalotl said:

The wolfenstein assets, they offer almost no value in terms of creating custom content and were a waste of two secret levels imo. On top of new mappers throwing in the ss in their maps which has always been a pet peeve of mine. I would much rather have a few extra vanilla textures in their place

 

One of my future plans it to create a vanilla MAP31 MAP32 replacement for vanilla Doom 2 containing two non Wolfesnstein secret levels. The music will be Bobby Prince rejects.

[Ragu]

Infinite height monsters don't bother me when I can actually see the monsters, but absolutely fuck infinite height monsters when they're below you. MAP18 of Icarus: Alien Vanguard comes to mind where you need to run along the top of crates with a narrow maze between the crates below you, and said maze being full of monsters who can stop you in your tracks and possibly also rip you apart when you bump into their dumb infinitely tall asses.

Also just about every Icon of Sin map sucks. I hate having to rush to complete whatever sequence of steps is required to land a hit before the area gets unmanageable, only to not get the timing of the rocket right like 50 times. If a map set has an Icon level where they just let you lob a couple rockets in from a fixed position, the map set instantly rises a couple of positions on my list. Or, better yet, if they don't have an Icon fight and just make it a regular hard level.

[Dillar]

I agree; infinite height cacos above? Good blocking gameplay. Infinite height demons below me literally blocking me from moving forward at all? Infuriating.

[URROVA]

infinitely tall monsters

infinitely tall meele attacks

visplane and intercept overflow

revenant missile op damage (more unfair if its a homing missile)

 

3 hours ago, El Franko said:

GZDoom

oh no please dont summon attictelephone :|

[ENEMY!!!]

I long hated some of the (GZ/Ultimate) Doom Builder defaults, like the STARTAN and flat textures mentioned, and especially the full bright dynamic lights (255-255-255, which is never what I want, or even close to it).  I found out that there's a config file where you can change those defaults to something nearer your preference though.  I had to change several 255-255-255 defaults for different types of dynamic lights, but the functionality is there and so far my changes have stuck.

[Gez]

20 hours ago, Rudolph said:

I could give a boring answer, like hitscanners, the Blursphere or the Revenant's homing missiles, but instead, I will go with the fact that they are not making games like this anymore. :( 

Who needs more games like Doom when there is already Doom?

 

Also, did you miss the whole retro shooter revival that has been going since about 2014? It's only been picking up steam (and Steam (and GOG)) since.

2014:

• Wrack
• Ziggurat

2015:

• Monument

2016:

• Devil Daggers
• Haydee
• Intrude

2017:

• CTHON
• High Hell
• Immortal Redneck
• Mad Sector
• STRAFE

2018:

• Apocryph
• DUSK
• Maximum Action
• Overload
• Project Warlock
• Wrack: Exoverse

2019:

• Amid Evil
• GUN GODZ
• Hedon
• Ion Fury
• Nightmare Reaper
• Shrine
• Void Bastards
• WRATH: Aeon of Ruin

2020:

• Bloom
• Chex Quest HD
• Crossbow: Bloodnight
• Gunfire Reborn
• Hellbound
• Lycanthorn

• Lycanthorn II

• Post Void

• Prodeus
• S.C.A.R
• Shrine II
• The Citadel
• ULTRAKILL
• Ziggurat II

2021:

• Dread Templar
• HROT
• Viscerafest
• Vomitoreum

WIP:

• Beyond Sunset
• Core Decay
• Fallen Aces
• Gloomwood
• He Came From Beyond
• Hermodr
• Selaco
• Supplice
• etc.

See also:

 

[Firedust]

To echo what people said in this thread, 'hate' is a very strong word. However, I do think that infinite height is super lame.

[Rudolph]

2 hours ago, Gez said:

Who needs more games like Doom when there is already Doom?

 

Also, did you miss the whole retro shooter revival that has been going since about 2014? It's only been picking up steam (and Steam (and GOG)) since.

What I meant is that Id Software is no longer producing Doom IWADs; I would love to see a Doom III or a Doom 64 II.

 

I am also aware of those retro shooters you listed, but they are just not the same. :(

 

^{And to be perfectly honest, I have played some of them and I did not like them as much, or at all... Some of them are more like Heretic/Hexen, Quake, Duke Nukem 3D, Serious Sam or even Wolfenstein 3D, i.e. games that play and feel differently than Classic Doom.}

[DollarStoreChili]

Wall activated secrets. If you must include them in a game, at least do us the favor of a subtle clue by having the texture be slightly off or something. Doom does that sometimes, but not always. I hate breaking the flow of combat to run around pressing use on the wall.

[Scypek2]

4 hours ago, Rudolph said:

What I meant is that Id Software is no longer producing Doom IWADs; I would love to see a Doom III or a Doom 64 II.

 

I cannot imagine what kind of purpose could that possibly serve. There's no competing against the ocean of free fan content that already exists. New levels, new graphics, new gameplay, all of the above. The only thing they're lacking is a ResetPlayerBrain MAPINFO property to let you discover first person shooters for the first time again.

[Jacek Bourne]

Fuckin blockmap bug. Decreased turn resolution recording demos. Nocliping projectiles.