Judgment: Retrial - 34 Map MBF21 Megawad (RC3 - 1/31/2024)

[princetontiger]

Ooooohh baby, these maps are fun as hell! 

[Caleb13]

19 minutes ago, Rayziik said:

It will definitely be on my list, but it likely won't happen until a final version is released. Maintaining two versions is a lot of extra work for little gain in the short term.

 

Of course, that makes sense. I can hardly wait already!

[WH-Wilou84]

Loving the new monsters so far, they feel adequately balanced.
The Baby Cacodemon seems a bit too healthy though, these things can somehow tank a point-blank Super Shotgun blast and it doesn't feel right :)

Also, DEMO3 features a proper Archon of Hell... Finally, these sprites get to see some use in a classic wad. It's something I've wanted to do for quite some time myself.
Great 8)

[TJG1289]

13 hours ago, Rayziik said:

Every map was tested in DSDA-Doom 0.21.3 and GZDoom 4.7.0 using hardware rendering.

 

And this is how I found out GZDoom now supports MBF21. Since I'm doing the MeagWAD Club right now, I don't think I'll be able to check this WAD out until I finish that playthrough, since I'll need to update my version, and I think doing that will ruin my save for the club. 

[Pirx]

14 hours ago, Rayziik said:

 

 

=  Design Notes:

 

Currently only known to work fully with DSDA-Doom 0.21.3 and GZDoom 4.7.0. It has been reported to run fine in Woof! as well.

 

The Doom 2 Minor Sprite Fixing Project is integrated into this Project: https://www.doomworld.com/vb/post/1126249

 

- Weapon Changes:

Pistol has been replaced with a Rifle, it fires faster and is perfectly accurate

Chaingun has been replaced with the Minigun, it fires much faster but is always inaccurate

Plasma projectiles look sleeker and sound quieter

BFG-9000 sprites have been changed to the BFG-2704

 

- Monster Changes:

Imps are renamed to Dark Imps, their projectile attack has changed to Lightning Balls

Demons/Spectres now move faster and attack faster

Cacodemons launch two attacks in quick succession, but the Lightning Balls do slightly less damage

Barons of Hell are renamed to Lords of Heresy, they launch two attack in quick succession

Lost Souls are renamed to Forgotten Ones, they now move slightly faster and will immediately attack on sight, but their health and damage are lowered

Arachnotron's radius/width has been shrunk down to accommodate tighter spaces

Pain Elementals now have a chance to immediately retaliate after the pain state and will spawn an extra Forgotten One upon death

 

- New Monsters:

Former Marine - Tougher Former Human who fires repeatedly while the target is in sight

Former Captain - Tougher Former Sergeant who fires repeatedly while the target is in sight

Former Shock Trooper - Tougher Former Human who fires plasma bolts repeatedly while the target is in sight

Former Brute - Tougher Former Sergeant who has an SSG

Baby Cacodemon - A baby Cacodemon with a smaller, weaker projectile attack

Fallen - A fast, flying demon who launches Revenant Missiles from above

Azazel - A bulky goat demon that launches a pair of even wider arcing Mancubus Fireballs

Wraith - An extermely fast Imp-like demon that only uses melee attacks and can teleport short distances

Nightshade - A floating demon with a unique bouncing projectile attack that can't be revived by an Archvile

Archon of Hell - A strong and bulky hell noble with multiple attack patterns and an explosion on death that can't be revived by an Archvile

 

 

 

those seem some sensible changes. especially the damn skulls and the quieter plasma rifle.

[koren]

So far these are all excellent maps so far. I'm a big fan of map11 and its rocket spamming gimmick. The new and improved pain elemental is a lot of fun to deal and are threatening due to how much chaos they can cause, even in low numbers. The archon reveal was surprising, to say the least and the attacks were even more so. Seeing all the little things mbf21 is capable of doing while retaining the feel of doom & demo compatibility is an exciting prospect.

[Shepardus]

I noticed that shooting a revenant produces a smoke puff (like hitting a wall) rather than the usual blood effect. If this was intentional, nice attention to detail, because why would a skeleton have blood? If it wasn't intentional, it's not a big deal anyway.

[Rayziik]

8 hours ago, Archi said:

FDAs for first 10 maps.

judgment_01_10_fdas.zip

 

Finally had a chance to sit down and watch. Figured out a bunch of stuff from it, took plenty of notes for more stuff to fix and some things to change. Thanks for playing!

 

1 hour ago, koren said:

So far these are all excellent maps so far. I'm a big fan of map11 and its rocket spamming gimmick. The new and improved pain elemental is a lot of fun to deal and are threatening due to how much chaos they can cause, even in low numbers. The archon reveal was surprising, to say the least and the attacks were even more so. Seeing all the little things mbf21 is capable of doing while retaining the feel of doom & demo compatibility is an exciting prospect.

 

I was very afraid that MAP11 would be controversial in a bad way, so hearing praise for it is very unexpected. I'm sure the other part of that map was crazy as well.

 

17 minutes ago, Shepardus said:

I noticed that shooting a revenant produces a smoke puff (like hitting a wall) rather than the usual blood effect. If this was intentional, nice attention to detail, because why would a skeleton have blood? If it wasn't intentional, it's not a big deal anyway.

 

Good catch. It is indeed an intentional change.

[A2Rob]

Those baby cacos are very wholesome and adorable.

[Noiser]

Very impressive, can't wait to try it out!

[Pixel Fiend]

I'm on MAP07. The end of MAP06 had the most entertaining boss fight for the end of a chapter that I can remember. Map06 looks like something straight out of Doom Eternal. Same energy. So far all ran well on Woof.

 

Spoiler

The doggo was helpful. But it sad when it died. Is there a reward if I manage to lead it safe to the exit with me?

I really loved how I could cheese one side of the courtyard of the Stronghold by crossing the trench in the right order. "ha! So long, suckers!"

 

I think it was the map before that which also had a really epic fight at the end. I think I couldn't wish for anything better than what the wad already delivers.

The cat & mouse game with archviles at the beginning of that level was hilarious. You have to be a bit sneaky in that little maze.

 

[Korozive]

On 10/18/2021 at 3:35 AM, Degree23 said:

I loaded this up in Zandronum, which indicated a lot of frames were missing, however I also wondered about one small detail, which was that the Black Imps seem indestructible? I loaded up some weapons and dumped 15 BFG blasts right in one's face and it still didn't die.

Well that escalated quickly. O_o

[Pixel Fiend]

EDIT. I was gonna ask how the author would feel if there was some alternative music patch. But then I realized there actually are some custom songs in it already so it's kinda weird to ask. But like, you know, Sigil has an alternative soundtrack for example. I really don't mind the choices from stock Doom music, though. It's still the songs most of us really enjoy, but applied to one of the best mapsets ever made.

Edited October 19, 2021 by game

[Archi]

Not finding those later maps fun to play, so likely will stop here.

judgment_10_17_fdas.zip

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

Maps named after Opeth, must play immediately.

[Rayziik]

5 hours ago, Archi said:

Not finding those later maps fun to play, so likely will stop here.

judgment_10_17_fdas.zip

 

Thanks for the demos, they've been extremely helpful!

[NuMetalManiak]

In MAP04, the blue key switch which is linedef 5706 seems to activate via red key instead.

 

Will probably add more. Interesting way to make the six-key door message I see.

MAP06: death exit didn't work properly (did not warp to next level in other words, I'm on 4.5.0 if that helps)

 

It seems that the next death exit on MAP10 also didn't work for me. Probably a port issue but this is kinda dumb. Probably would be foolproof to just have player telefrag barrels which should be more than enough to kill the player + maybe add some barrels next to another voodoo doll to propel the player and/or voodoo doll instead.

Edited October 20, 2021 by NuMetalManiak : new add

[Vile]

Just finished my playthrough and had an awesome time with it overall, great stuff!  I played pistol start and there were some instances where I was a bit low on ammo or trying to figure out which way to go to get a vital weapon.  The map29 playthrough was especially interesting in that regard because I did all of the red key fights without the rocket launcher since I didn't find it until near the end.  Aside from that, the wad looked great and some of the music choices for the final maps were cool, especially that heavy track for the final map.

[Vile]

I meant to include this yesterday but there are vods of the playthrough if that stuff is helpful at all.

 

Spoiler

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1180448543 - maps 01-15, 31-32

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1181357404 - maps 16-25

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1181579060 - maps 26-30

 

I also felt I understated how impressed I was with the wad as a whole; it really does feel like a lot of work was put into it.  Thank you for making this!

[Rayziik]

20 hours ago, NuMetalManiak said:

In MAP04, the blue key switch which is linedef 5706 seems to activate via red key instead.

 

Will probably add more. Interesting way to make the six-key door message I see.

MAP06: death exit didn't work properly (did not warp to next level in other words, I'm on 4.5.0 if that helps)

 

Thank you for the reports, that switch being wrong is something I would've never caught honestly!

 

8 hours ago, Vile said:

I meant to include this yesterday but there are vods of the playthrough if that stuff is helpful at all.

 

I also felt I understated how impressed I was with the wad as a whole; it really does feel like a lot of work was put into it.  Thank you for making this!

 

Thanks for playing! I wasn't aware you streamed, else I would have hopped in if schedule permitted!

[xdude_gamer]

Very good stuff! The aesthetic of this is really nice. Looking forward to seeing an official idgames release!

[NuMetalManiak]

Okay not sure if this was intended but after completing MAP16 I somehow warped to MAP19. Looking in MAPINFO I found out that the next marker goes there, and that MAP17 and MAP18 when you complete them you apparently just restart the map (both nexts show MAP17 for MAP17 and MAP18 for MAP18). Haven't played those maps I skipped yet but I wanna know if this was intended.

 

New one: MAP22, linedef 7751 should be an SR, it's possible to hit it before it shows up for real and when you enter the building the wall it would lower will rise and when you come back this will mean you get stuck.

 

MAP24, seems all the sectors with tag 18 do not have a teleport landing on them.

 

Done with the whole thing now.

Edited October 21, 2021 by NuMetalManiak

[Rayziik]

10 minutes ago, NuMetalManiak said:

Okay not sure if this was intended but after completing MAP16 I somehow warped to MAP19. Looking in MAPINFO I found out that the next marker goes there, and that MAP17 and MAP18 when you complete them you apparently just restart the map (both nexts show MAP17 for MAP17 and MAP18 for MAP18). Haven't played those maps I skipped yet but I wanna know if this was intended.

 

Thanks for the report. I'm going to fix this and another critical issue on MAP31 and release a minor bugfix version.

[WH-Wilou84]

Up to map 20 now, the wad is pretty solid and all :)
Just got stuck on map 20 here :



Some notes as regards to your Archon of Hell :
- I like what you've done with this enemy, but I feel he doesn't pay off much as a threat so far, for his size... Compared to the Azazel, for instance, his attacks are a bit too easy to avoid IMHO.
- I feel all his frames should have the "lit" bit activated in DEHACKED, as his hands/claws and hooves are constantly wrapped in fire/plasma.
- A couple years ago, when I was working on this thing, I tried to increase his sprites' size. Doubling these would be easy, but then he'd have been too tall (as much as a Cyberdemon and that's not what I wanted). Seems like you've managed to increase the Archon's sprites' size without simply doubling them, may I ask how ?
(My attempts at increasing sprite size by 20% or 25% gave terrible results)

Also, I'm not sure about how I feel regarding the music selection in the wad. I mean, I like classic Doom OSTs and your picks are solid (mostly original Doom stuff), but I think it would've been more interesting to mix things up with other MIDIs inbetween stock tracks.

I should also comment a bit about these dog companions, haha. I've actually tried to save them by luring them away from the monsters (on map 13 for instance), but obviously it never worked and the poor doggos always got torn apart.
This concept is original and memorable, so you get bonus points for that, but every time I reach a new map, I hope there's no doggie in it :p

[Firedust]

OMG it is finally upon us!

 

I've been waiting for this since 2014 lmao

[Rayziik]

2 hours ago, WH-Wilou84 said:

Just got stuck on map 20 here :

 

Adding this to this list, thanks!

 

Quote

Some notes as regards to your Archon of Hell :
- I like what you've done with this enemy, but I feel he doesn't pay off much as a threat so far, for his size... Compared to the Azazel, for instance, his attacks are a bit too easy to avoid IMHO.
- I feel all his frames should have the "lit" bit activated in DEHACKED, as his hands/claws and hooves are constantly wrapped in fire/plasma.
- A couple years ago, when I was working on this thing, I tried to increase his sprites' size. Doubling these would be easy, but then he'd have been too tall (as much as a Cyberdemon and that's not what I wanted). Seems like you've managed to increase the Archon's sprites' size without simply doubling them, may I ask how ?

 

I have an idea to change the attack patterns perhaps. Maybe I'll play around with it. I just didn't want him to be more obnoxious than he needed to be. For being fully lit, I did it at one point but it ended up looking really gaudy.

 

When I resized the sprites I used this site: http://waifu2x.udp.jp/. I upscaled to 1.6x and then manually went through and downsized them using nearest neighbor to 78% of that size. They end up as roughly 1.25 the original size. There's a few weird shapes that end up appearing, but I was satisfied in the end with it.

 

Quote

Also, I'm not sure about how I feel regarding the music selection in the wad...

 

I decided against going after unique midis for all the maps simply because I didn't want to spend any more time on searching for stuff. I also didn't want to bug anyone about making midis because I wasn't sure how long it would take to finish this project. In a perfect world, I'd opt to commission a custom set of midis.

 

There are unique tracks on the last 5 maps and both secret maps however.

 

Quote

I should also comment a bit about these dog companions, haha. I've actually tried to save them by luring them away from the monsters (on map 13 for instance), but obviously it never worked and the poor doggos always got torn apart.

 

They're the bestest boys, but unfortunately they want to help you out so much it usually costs them their lives. Better they go down fighting than stuck in a cage!

 

2 hours ago, Firedust said:

OMG it is finally upon us!

 

I've been waiting for this since 2014 lmao

 

Sorry for the wait, hopefully it meets your expectations!

Edited October 22, 2021 by Rayziik

[WH-Wilou84]

9 hours ago, Rayziik said:

When I resized the sprites I used this site: http://waifu2x.udp.jp/. I upscaled to 1.6x and then manually went through and downsized them using nearest neighbor to 78% of that size. They end up as roughly 1.25 the original size. There's a few weird shapes that end up appearing, but I was satisfied in the end with it.

Thanks a bunch, I'll make sure to try it on my end and see how it goes :)

I'm on map 24 now, and this is my favorite from the set so far. Great layout and interesting shapes, and overall it's a nice rendition of a burning garden in Hell.
This teleporter by the yellow key doesn't work on UV :


 

[Lorenz0]

13 hours ago, Rayziik said:

I decided against going after unique midis for all the maps simply because I didn't want to spend any more time on searching for stuff. I also didn't want to bug anyone about making midis because I wasn't sure how long it would take to finish this project. In a perfect world, I'd opt to commission a custom set of midis.

 

I feel like this is a bit too important to ignore. I find this wad really hard to play because of the old iwad midis, that I've heard a thousand times, running in the background. This community is full of talented musicians and finding some good and fitting music really shouldn't be that hard. You don't even need to commission any new pieces, since there's so much of it already. I recommend going through some of these collections by Jimmy, Psyrus, Eris, and using some of these in your wad.

[Pixel Fiend]

44 minutes ago, Lorenz0 said:

I feel like this is a bit too important to ignore. I find this wad really hard to play because of the old iwad midis, that I've heard a thousand times, running in the background. This community is full of talented musicians and finding some good and fitting music really shouldn't be that hard. You don't even need to commission any new pieces, since there's so much of it already. I recommend going through some of these collections by Jimmy, Psyrus, Eris, and using some of these in your wad.

 

Can't agree more. That music got old fast and I didn't even play Heretic that much. Maybe if it's possible you could use some midis from other old fantasy games?

[TheCyberDruid]

Map 7 crashed for me on GZDoom 4.7.1 a few seconds after picking up the yellow key twice. The second time I saved right after I picked up the key and before it crashed and loading that save allowed me to continue. Just thought I report that here. Well made maps so far.