The /newstuff Chronicles #157

[Little Faith]

I think Vrack 3 was better than Vrack 2. Primarily because it doesn't feature any solid blocks of cacodemons.

[Jon]

Whoever decided to reupload exec.wad for no reason, go to hell.

Opening on such a high-note really filled me with a great desire to read this weeks newstuff. Who made you in charge of uploads? Thats right, nobody. Stick to reviewing stuff and leave your high-horse, I-know-the-archives-inside-out attitude out of it.

[Hyena]

First, I'd like to say I was a bit disappointed. Deathz0r said the most awaited wad of the year was coming. I thought "Mordeth? Millenium?" and it turned out to be Vrack 3, which I didn't even know was being worked on :p
Oh well. /me plays

Carnevil said:

While the reviewer might be "right" in saying that a wad is pure shit or whatever, and others agree, what's more important: the bottom line (keeping wad authors happy so they keep making them), or being right?

The bottom line is not encouraging authors. Encouraging authors is good, but it's not the reason the newstuff reviews exist. They exist to give the doom community an idea of what new wads were released, so they don't have to wade through and play every one themselves.
If every first-wad's review was "it was okay, good first attempt" and "I didn't like this one, but it's his first time", the average reader's reaction would be "What makes it okay? What didn't you like?"
The most important thing in a review is description. You need to tell them what it's like. Even if the review says "I hate this level because there are tight corridors and barely enough ammo to fight all the medium-to-large size monsters with a tiny arsenal of weapons", there's probably going to be a few people who *like* tight ammo-conserving levels with tons of medium monsters, and will download it despite the bad review.
Deathz0r at least makes clear what his opinion is, and why his opinion is that way. The readers can discern for themselves whether they want to play the wads from that. (Although, I definitely will suggest, Deathz0r, that you should spend more than 20 minutes)
And if new authors are discouraged from one bad review, maybe they shouldn't be making wads. Criticism is heavy, even for some of the best ones. But that's part of the learning curve. Some criticism needs to be weighed and considered. Other criticism needs to be ignored. If you let it get to you once, it'll probably get to you every time.

[Ralphis]

Enjay said:

However, we now expect newstuff to be a bit harsh, and lets not forget, just like the WAD authors, the newstuff reviewers are also doing this with their free time for no payment. They are not reviewing Hollywood funded projects but neither are they being paid by some media company to review Hollywood blockbusters either. The reviewers are amateurs and hobbyists who put their time and effort into the reviews. Saying "your reviews suck" is no different in principle to the reviewers saying the same about levels. I for one would like to say "thank you" to them and ask them to "keep up the good work".

I think there's a difference between reviewing someone's art and someone's reviews. If you're going to publically bash a wad you might as well do it constructively. Like I said before, people put alot of effort into wads (I'm sure you know this already Enjay) and I don't think they do it just so they can be humiliated on doomworld's main page.

[The Flange Peddler]

It took some time but I finally got through Vrack3. I didn't think it was all that amazingly hard overall on UV, though there were some particularly tough parts. And I was hitting quicksave quite a bit...

I didn't think the gameplay was that repetitive. Perhaps at the start, when ammo is tighter, but by the time you get the rocket launcher the gameplay really picks up (really liked that room btw, it's so obvious there's going to be an ambush but you just have to wait to see what comes). The Caco maze and lift puzzles also both give refreshing changes to the normal style of play that's seen elsewhere in the level. Though I will say that the second half of the Caco maze is a steaming pile of shite. Having to go back through it with all those Archiviles, revenants and caco's with hardly any ammo is not fun. Very annoying but not fun at all. The fact that part of the puzzle involves going over a completely random linedef that for no reason lowers an important wall doesn't help matters either.

Apart from that I thought it was great. Could have done with a bit more colour other than grey, but perhaps the lack of colour is testament to how great the architexture is overall (the spinning holograms were particularly awesome). The music was nice too.

[Hellbent]

deathz0r said:

Oops, I meant MAP04 instead of MAP06. Heh, I was kinda rushing the reviews, did them all in 20 minutes (a record for me).

I think MAP04 is better than MAP06. :P (they're kinda similar)

Szymanski said:

LOL @ irony

Hey, at least my levels have color! But I definately won't argue with you on this one. I take very little time out to texture. I just suck at it, although I'm kinda tempted to go into vrack3 and use the 'replace all textures with' feature to give it some color. :D I suppose I'd have to get Fredrik's permission on that one, though.

Grazza said:

Hellbent: I don't think I ignored any of your maps last week (or by "ignored" do you mean that you don't believe anyone has played them?). The megawad actually arrived too late to be "officially" in my week (it didn't appear in the Saturday's fullsort document), and I preferred not to try to squeeze in a really hasty review at the last minute.

I wasn't referring to missing r-mega.wad. That was totally understandable and I thank you for not trying to squeeze it in with a rushed review. Your reviews were just very cursory and the one of 24-b-day.wad indicates you made a mistake and meant those comments, 'small and simple' for one of my other wads. Anyone who actually bothered to play this, lemme know if you also thought it was small and simple.

Rellik said:

That's the problem, it's all fine and good to say that other people should do reviews but finding them and getting them to do it is another thing entirely. I think that anything is better than having no newstuff reviews at all. You also need to keep in mind that this is one persons opinion. That's the great thing about this comment system, if you don't agree with the review just write your own and post it. It's not that hard especially if it means that much to you.

A good point. I'll take that into consideration next time I wanna whine about the reviewers. Except, does that mean if I don't like the review /newstuff reviewer gave for my wad, I should write a review of my own wad? :-/

Hyena said:

The bottom line is not encouraging authors. Encouraging authors is good, but it's not the reason the newstuff reviews exist. They exist to give the doom community an idea of what new wads were released, so they don't have to wade through and play every one themselves.

That seems like a good definition.

If every first-wad's review was "it was okay, good first attempt" and "I didn't like this one, but it's his first time", the average reader's reaction would be "What makes it okay? What didn't you like?"
The most important thing in a review is description. You need to tell them what it's like. Even if the review says "I hate this level because there are tight corridors and barely enough ammo to fight all the medium-to-large size monsters with a tiny arsenal of weapons", there's probably going to be a few people who *like* tight ammo-conserving levels with tons of medium monsters, and will download it despite the bad review.

These are some clear and excellent points you make here. Hitting at the heart of the issue. Perhaps, then, the reviewer should try in keeping his reviews to a description of the wads and review, and leave out unnecessary negative comments.

Ralphis said:

I think there's a difference between reviewing someone's art and someone's reviews. If you're going to publically bash a wad you might as well do it constructively. Like I said before, people put alot of effort into wads (I'm sure you know this already Enjay) and I don't think they do it just so they can be humiliated on doomworld's main page.

To further this point, people spend hours upon hours building their wads only to have them torn apart. Reviewers spend, umm... well... 20 minutes. Right now I feel more sympathy toward the wad makers than the reviewers.

[Linguica]

Hey Scuba Steve, we need a "fire deathzor now" graphic for people to post.

[Szymanski]

Linguica said:

Hey Scuba Steve, we need a "fire deathzor now" graphic for people to post.

and t-shirts, there's money to be made

[Carnevil]

Uh anyway, on a brighter note, vrack3 kicked major ass. Very challenging, great detail, and lots of very bitchy, but cool traps. Fucking Mancubi kicked my ass :(

Great work fredrik!

[Arno]

Vrack3 is amazing. I have to admit I didn't finish the level. After about 40 minutes I kept running in circles and didn't know where to go next.
But the visuals are stunning. I can tell that constructing Vrack3 must have taken an obscene amount of time and patience. I don't see this kind of attention to detail very often and certainly not on such a large scale. Excellent job, Fredrik!

[Udderdude]

Jippy said:

You must be new here, or you're an idiot. Maybe both. Either way, it seems you're a fucking baby.

Don't whine because your review wasn't good. Here's a tip. Make better WAD's.

Hmm, I see Newbie under your name. Looks like you're new here too! Either way, it seems you're a pathetic troll. He didn't even "review" my WAD. It was just some snide comment about the MP3 and saying he hates cramped battles. I bet you didn't even download it and try it, or you'd see it's not a bad level at all.

[Naked Snake]

Jon said:

Opening on such a high-note really filled me with a great desire to read this weeks newstuff. Who made you in charge of uploads? Thats right, nobody. Stick to reviewing stuff and leave your high-horse, I-know-the-archives-inside-out attitude out of it.

Bwhahaha.

Anyway, Vrack3 = teh r00l

[Use]

I'm at another computer now, I've downloaded Vrack3 and will play it ASAP. I wonder if I'll find it as fun as Vrack2...I'm also downloading udderdudes level because you seem like a cool guy. Be sure to stay tuned for my ever-so-important opinion!

[The Ultimate DooMer]

omg, newstuff flamewar! (we haven't seen those for a while...)

Anyway, I enjoyed Vrack 3, more so 'cos I'm a big fan of tech maps (just that bit with the archviles and no ammo annoyed me). Kaiser 5 is really good too - the only time I've enjoyed a map more by not finding the super until later (after the big fight in fact, which is near the end).

/me goes off and wonders if there'll be any wads to review next week...

edit:

/me eats my words (they taste nice btw) and starts downloading 24 maps...

[Graf Zahl]

The Ultimate DooMer said:

omg, newstuff flamewar! (we haven't seen those for a while...)

Isn't that to be expected when Deathz0r is reviewing? If I remember correctly the last time when he was doing it the same thing happened.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

He's usually the only reviewer they happen with, yes, but we've not had one for a while. (so it wasn't expected this time, as we'd gotten used to them not happening)

[Sporku]

Wow. One of my wads actually got a half-way decent review.

[Fletcher`]

udderdude said:

Hmm, I see Newbie under your name. Looks like you're new here too! Either way, it seems you're a pathetic troll. He didn't even "review" my WAD. It was just some snide comment about the MP3 and saying he hates cramped battles. I bet you didn't even download it and try it, or you'd see it's not a bad level at all.

It's deathz0r. Fucking deal with it already. If you hadn't noticed, he's a sadistic bastard by nature and in no way are you to take insult by it. If you do, you are oversensitive and every little thing someone says about you on the internet brings you to tears.

Just give up or die already.

I did play your map and quickly became agitated. Never in my entire dooming career has 144 enemies given me so much trouble. Granted, the map itself is rather nice, albeit a bit short, and the exit is nothing to write home about. Basically the gameplay is "get ambushed, run into a wall, get ambushed again, run into another wall." (I just want to let you know that revnants in a 64x64 tunnel is not a very good idea) The mp3 was alright, and it fit, but kinda distracted me. I always thought there was an arachnotron following me. However, I'm glad you didn't pack the entire map full of stealth monsters. That helped a bit.

I probably won't play this map again. Not this lifetime anyway.

[Udderdude]

ravage said:

It's deathz0r. Fucking deal with it already. If you hadn't noticed, he's a sadistic bastard by nature and in no way are you to take insult by it. If you do, you are oversensitive and every little thing someone says about you on the internet brings you to tears.

Just give up or die already.

I did play your map and quickly became agitated. Never in my entire dooming career has 144 enemies given me so much trouble. Granted, the map itself is rather nice, albeit a bit short, and the exit is nothing to write home about. Basically the gameplay is "get ambushed, run into a wall, get ambushed again, run into another wall." (I just want to let you know that revnants in a 64x64 tunnel is not a very good idea) The mp3 was alright, and it fit, but kinda distracted me. I always thought there was an arachnotron following me. However, I'm glad you didn't pack the entire map full of stealth monsters. That helped a bit.

I probably won't play this map again. Not this lifetime anyway.

I didn't know Jippy was deathz0r .. give me a break. Would it be better if I accused him of it in my post? Well, I guess being a sadistic bastard is fine as long as you do it so constantly nobody even notices anymore! I sure as hell won't.

Yes, the map has alot of ambushes .. on UV. And they aren't even that bad. You can survive them. If you are trying to fight the revenants in the tunnel, you've got the wrong idea. Run the hell out of the tunnel and fight them on the platform. If you sit there and let the rockets hit you in the face you aren't winning any genius awards.

Edit : Here's a demo of me playing it. Whee! http://rydia.net/udder/!crap/sw.lmp

[Fletcher`]

Jippy's not deathz0r.

[DooMBoy]

I played Kaiser Kaiser_5, and it was quite good, I love tech maps. I hope I hope I hope there will be a Kaiser_6 :)

[Bloodshedder]

udderdude said:

some stuff

Would it shock you to believe that maybe not everyone enjoys your creation as much as you? That's why people have opinions. That's why we have the /newstuff Chronicles.

[Ichor]

The music in kaiser_5 annoyed me a bit. Sure, it's fine for Batman, but it doesn't seem to fit in Doom very well. Maybe it's because I've heard it many times before, and I kept thinking that I was playing the old NES game.

[Udderdude]

Bloodshedder said:

Would it shock you to believe that maybe not everyone enjoys your creation as much as you? That's why people have opinions. That's why we have the /newstuff Chronicles.

I know not everyone is going to like my levels. I'd atleast like a review on /newstuff that's longer than one line and actually has some constructive critisism. Is that too much to ask? Apparently with deathz0r it is.

[Bloodshedder]

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But I think if the reviewer fails to provide such information, you'll usually get what you want from people who respond in the comment thread, like you have this time.

[Jippy]

udderdude said:

Either way, it seems you're a pathetic troll.

Shrug.. Okay, call a spade a spade. I'm a pathetic troll, you're a pathetic mapper.

udderdude said:

I bet you didn't even download it and try it, or you'd see it's not a bad level at all.

That I did, and I have to agree with the review. I don't like tight, cramped levels (as you can see here in a post I made back in.. Oh, lookie that.. May).

udderdude said:

I didn't know Jippy was deathz0r

Nah.. I'm not Deathz0r, although I do r0x0r his world.

[Hyena]

ravage said:

Jippy's not deathz0r.

No, but I understand his confusion. I had to read both of your posts a few times to get what you meant. When you began your post with "Its deathz0r" that mislead him to believe Jippy was deathz0r. He was led to believe this because you seemed to think he was complaining about his review instead of the newbie who showed up and started trolling.

Hug. Shake hands. GET TEH N00B.

[Udderdude]

This is just sad. I click on Jippy's "Old Fogies Of Doom" link, and the immaturity level shoots into orbit.

"CAN YOU BELEIVE IT?!?!!!!11

I maed a level and psoted it on the internet and no one liked it!!!!!!11

WTF??????!

my map is a good level it rules all other maps anyone who doesn't like my map is a stupid dumb retard stupid moran!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

and for the rest of you who loves it, just wait for my newest map coming out soon. 3000 enemies in one cramped corrador. It will be the best map evar!"

If this is the kind of crap I'm to expect when I release a map and try to get some comments from it, I should probabally just upload them to /newstuff and forget about checking doomworld.com alltogether. Christ.

[Frades]

AgentSpork said:

Wow. One of my wads actually got a half-way decent review.

Of all the maps released this week, i liked yours best.
I don't know why, but i just like your style.
And a note for the reviewer:
You couldn't find your way out of the pit because you have to kill the baddies first. And then you'll get out of there. Nice scripting..

[gemini09]

About the WAD you didn't review because it was just a compilation, you can still review it by saying most maps are good/bad and they flow well one after another and there are no super good looking maps and some super ugly maps, and so on. Just a tip for ya, I thought that was a pretty dumb thing to say. Or a bad excuse for laziness (should be proud!) :-)