How does one get good at Doom?

[ASaltShaker]

How would a person improve their skill? I'm asking this because I feel like I've been held back by enjoying mapsets by a low level of skill. Usually, I'd breeze through the first three maps or so, then the next ones would keep me resetting the level over and over again. In my current situation, I'm stuck at BTSX's MAP05 in HMP, and Valiant's MAP04 in UV. I enjoyed these mapsets before being frustrated by having to reset the level over again, as I'm not a person to use saves frequently.

 

I play keyboard only, by the way. What do you think could be some things I could do to be better at these maps, and Doom in general?

[Dark Pulse]

23 minutes ago, ASaltShaker said:

I play keyboard only, by the way. What do you think could be some things I could do to be better at these maps, and Doom in general?

Learn to mouse. Short but simple.

 

The aim finesse, reaction time, and so on that you gain with it make Keyboard-only a distant second.

[idbeholdME]

Find a comfortable keyboard scheme. I am perfectly fine with the default but not everyone might be.

 

Save as often as you like. Wasting time on replaying the same thing over and over can get boring real quick. Pointless repetition only adds to boredom and replaying the same section over and over won't improve your skill much.

 

Utilize cover. Contrary to popular belief, cover is extremely important in Doom. Especially against hitscan. Peeking from behind corners with the SSG is a great tactic for minimising exposure to the enemy and dishing out heavy damage.

Edited July 28, 2020 by idbeholdME

[Lucky_Edie]

-Watch good players, learn what strats they use to beat fights, try them and see why they work. If you barely beat a fight, try it again and practice it.

-Be critical of your own gameplay, ask yourself why you died and how you could of countered it. 

-Take knowledge you learn about a wad and authors style to think about the traps they might use and how to escape them if they come out.

-Find what cover is available and work with it, you won't always have a giant wall to hide behind and if thin pillars is all you've got, use it. Edit: Torches blocking projectiles isn't vanilla, if your sourceport allows this, use it at your own risk. 

-If the fight seems completely impossible with your current strategy, decide if its lack of skill or lack of strategy failing you in that fight, if you think the strategy is too RNG dependant, rethink it. An example of this is standing in front of a vile and hoping to pain chance it. 

-Use the mouse, keyboard only is extremely difficult.

-Test your abiltiies on harder content, watch the uvMAX if you are stuck for too long and try to use their strategies. 

-Work out where your weakness is, is it dealing with hoards, platforming, movement, hitscanners or dodging? Find a fight that tests that skill and practice it. 

-If there's a mechanic you don't fully understand, ask for help understanding it.

-Try not to mid fight save, I feel this takes away from the overall feel of the fight and makes it harder to understand exactly how the movement and actions taken during the fight have impacted it. I'm not saying never mid-fight, just don't over do it. 

 

MrZzul starts every stream with a warmup routine featuring 2 shotting cybers and rocketing revs on stairs. You gotta practice and grind to improve. 

 

As you watch and play more doom, your knowledge of the game will improve and the library of strategies you can use in fights will expand, making it easier to find one that works. 

 

Of course if you don't enjoy doing such, then don't force yourself. Just have fun and enjoy the game on lower difficulties.  

Edited July 29, 2020 by Lucky_Edie : Got carried away rambling at 3am

[Final Verdict]

I would say the most important one is practice and playtime. It might seem cliche but the more you play it the better you'll get, it really is that simple. The people you see whizzing through insane maps have likely sunk hundreds, if not thousands, of hours into Doom or similar games. Some of us have been playing Doom since 1993.

 

Personally I think you should try to use the mouse in Doom, it does give you a large boost to performance once you get used to it. However, I don't think it's critical. I have seen keyboard only users who were very good at the game. I myself used the keyboard back in the 90's and managed no problem. But making use of the mouse will bring improvement in aiming, reaction time etc.

 

Regardless, I'll try and give some actual tips below.

 

Tactics/retreat/cover. These are some of your best tools, you don't need to fight 6 barons in a small room. Retreat to a larger room and lure them in, bring them to more favourable grounds.

 

If however you get locked into this room then search for cover and use it to hide behind (or circle-strafe like mad if there is no cover). Anything that breaks their line of sight, especially important for hit-scanners. 

 

Long story short, when possible fight on your terms. Not the enemies. Lure Cacodemons into corridors to negate their strength (flight), cause monster infighting to distract them when you're overwhelmed. Stuff like that. 

 

Also, prioritise hit-scanners when possible, they may seem weak but you can't dodge those bullets. You can however dodge any and every projectile. Including Cyberdemons. It's why they're very easy to beat, they're only really a threat in a confined space.

 

[P41R47]

lower the difficulty, when you beat the wad, then jump to the next difficulty level.

There is no shortcut, experience will teach, test what are the best weapons on specific situations, learn to react to the odds while being calm. Don't be ashamed on lowering the difficulty, some mapsets are for really experienced players, and there is no way to obtain the skill needed to beat them without practice.

 

Also, don't feel ashamed if you can't.

There are a lot of persons that get really frustrated for don't having the skill to beat a mapset.

This is a game, and there is only a way to win it.

Having fun!

If you don't have fun while playing, there is no way to improve.

[JBerg]

You'll improve a lot if you switch to keyboard + mouse

[D4NUK1]

Keyboard+Mouse and the reaction time to response anything that the wad trows you will be like 90% more efficent-

[Uni]

Here are some tips :

• Practice, practice and more practice.
• Challenging yourself with harder PWADs once you reach a certain skill level.
• Researching and observing FDAs and understanding what techniques were applied.
• Complete knowledge of Doom bestiary and weapons functions.

It's always a good choice to bump down the difficulty if a certain level or a PWAD is giving you too much troubles. Once you beat it, you can study the layout, monster positioning, health pickup etc... and form a better strategy the next time.

[Archi]

10 000 hours.

[Maes]

Interesting. That's one of the few -if not the only- times where mouse + keyboard is proposed as a clearly superior control scheme that gives tangible advantages, not merely a more comfortable control scheme, or just a matter of habit (can't count how many "Hurr durr, I awlays (sic) played with 2-button analog joystick and got on just fine" posts I read in my time). So I guess there's still hope for my keyboard/joystick-only DM or speedrunning league, if those control methods are finally recognized as inherently inferior?

[Stabbey]

First tip: Don't play modern maps with keyboard only. The original levels were meant to be played keyboard only, but there is absolutely no guarantee that any user-made maps will be playable keyboard only. I was using the mouse to aim and move in Wolfenstein 3D. The game supported that from the start.

 

Modern maps, especially ones meant to be challenging are intended for playing using the freedom to aim and move in different directions. You can't do that with keyboard only. You need to use the mouse to do well.

 

[HAK3180]

It's harder / less intuitive to maximize efficiency on keyboard only, so you need a good setup. For example, my setup is such that I can basically SR-50 as default movement. But the main thing is just practice. You can intentionalize this if you want to (practice maps, 15 cyberdemons with 1200 cell challenges, etc.), especially if you want to improve quickly, but in my opinion, just playing wads that are slightly above your own skill level will naturally level you up. 

 

Abandon keyboard-only if you want, but don't think it's an obstacle to even playing today's wads. I have played hundreds of wads that I wouldn't necessarily have chosen, because people asked me to. Almost all of them are made by rodent people. Almost none of them presented a significant extra challenge because I don't mouse.

[Doomsday]

Learn which weapons work against certain enemies.

[Can't play on Nightmare]

23 minutes ago, Doomsdλy1993 said:

Learn which weapons work against certain enemies.

 

Your opinion about which is for which??

[ASaltShaker]

Thanks for all your suggestions! I'll definitely keep them in mind. Knowing that it's all just practice and repetition keeps me motivated to just play challenging maps. I've decided I'll try out mouse + keyboard for a while and see if I'll stick with it. Otherwise, I guess I'm back to keyboard only.

 

3 minutes ago, Can't play on Nightmare said:

 

Your opinion about which is for which??

Not the guy you quoted, but here's what I think which weapon is best for which encounter/enemy.

 

Shotgun - low health enemies, usually. 

Super Shotgun - if I have lots of shells, I'll usually use this for the bigger baddies or bigger hordes of low-tier enemies

Chaingun - for lots of low health enemies, or stunlocking. (Usually revenants, lmao)

Rocket Launcher - high health enemies
Plasma Rifle - a "get-me-out-of-here" weapon for me, or if I don't have any rockets for high health enemies
BFG9000 - obviously, for groups of enemies or cyberdemons

[nname]

Play.

[Doomsday]

2 minutes ago, Can't play on Nightmare said:

 

Your opinion about which is for which??

Shotgun and SSG works for most enemies. Chaingun is good for large groups of Zombiemen, ShotgunZombies and Chaingunners, it is also good against Cacodemons, Lost Souls and Pain Elementals it can also be good for sniping things from far away. The rocket launcher is another weapon good at dealing with large groups of weaker enemies it can be good against most stronger enemies too such as the Baron of hell, the Archvile, Mancubus and the Arachnotron. Plasma rifle is also good against Arachnotrons, Cyberdemons and Hell Knights. Also like the Chaingun can be used to dealing with rooms of weaker enemies.

The BFG is just good against anything really as long as you can get close to the enemies your firing it at.

[SilverMiner]

Play some Half-Life/Counter Strike/Plutonia/Kama Sutra/Akeldama maps and you will be OK

 

Playing CS on deathmatch servers should really improve your skill

[baja blast rd.]

I would suggest learning the value and how-tos of maneuvering and positioning. This is something you don't see discussed too much explicitly, but it's probably the most important concept for improvement. 
 

I did a video of Valiant map04, and I deliberately tried to avoid anything showy or mechanically demanding, but the map probably looks quite easy. 

 

 

That is because a lot of the danger of the map is constantly being preempted and defused -- kind of sneakily -- by solid maneuvering in combat. A clear example begins around 1:00 when I'm clearing up the imps and cacos. At one point, I drop down and I'm fighting a caco, but I know there is an imp to the side of me, so I move forward/backwards and preemptively dodge any possible imp projectiles. 

 

A lot of that stuff isn't easy to notice -- to an observer who hasn't played the map, it often goes overlooked and just looks like the map is easy to begin with -- but it's the main thing going on. 

 

Stuff like that fills the whole video such that in most encounters, I don't take too much damage. Or more importantly (since 'reality'-ing a map isn't necessarily playing better or what the player is out to do) such that my 'death probability' is as low as the map might allow. (Which here is near-zero.) 

 

The main way people are already familiar with the value of 'practical combat movement' is, like, circle-strafing messy hordes in arenas that are too big. You abstract dodging and reflex requirements out of those fights by just moving in a circle. But that general concept also applies in lots of different ways: other patterns (e.g. figure-eighting, U-strafing), movement tactics (e.g. tap-moving for the sake of bullet-herding), or just moving through fights along specific paths with specific movement speeds (rather than understanding strategy purely in verbal terms like 'kill the imps, then pick up health, then get the cyb infighting, etc.' -- which isn't always the best approach).  

 

1 hour ago, ASaltShaker said:

Not the guy you quoted, but here's what I think which weapon is best for which encounter/enemy.

 

Shotgun - low health enemies, usually. 

Super Shotgun - if I have lots of shells, I'll usually use this for the bigger baddies or bigger hordes of low-tier enemies

Chaingun - for lots of low health enemies, or stunlocking. (Usually revenants, lmao)

Rocket Launcher - high health enemies
Plasma Rifle - a "get-me-out-of-here" weapon for me, or if I don't have any rockets for high health enemies
BFG9000 - obviously, for groups of enemies or cyberdemons

 

This is too rigid imo. Any weapon can be good for any monster or group depending on the scenario. In the Valiant video, I don't use anything weaker than the SSG (even against lone zombies and imps) because a) I know the map has enough ammo and b) weapon switching is often slower, often leaves you vulnerable, and adds another thing to keep track of for what, in this map at least, would top out at very limited gain. Or another example: Common wisdom is that rockets are bad for pain elementals, right? Well... what if you play a fight where it's your only serious way of dealing enough DPS before they overwhelm you. :) 

Edited July 28, 2020 by ‹rd›

[meganium_menagerie]

Not sure how relevant/helpful this is (I'm still extremely bad myself!), but I watched this video on speedrunning and skill the other day that might be interesting.

Since watching, I've been trying to stop thinking about what exactly I need to do to dodge every single revenant fireball or fight every archvile, and instead think of my actions in larger chunks and let muscle memory guide me through the nitty gritty. Three revenants, do the revenant thing, now theres an archvile too, do the revenant and archvile thing, and so on. Rather than "Oh, a revenant, move in a circle to avoid the homing fireball, now there's another, keep moving in a circle and look for cover, no theres an archvile, make sure I keep the archvile out of sight and keep doing the little circles because I'm still fighting those and keep the archvile out of sight" ad infinitum.

[Good-Old]

This might help.

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/97106-how-does-one-go-about-getting-better-at-doom/?do=findComment&comment=1799981

[Master O]

34 minutes ago, meganium_menagerie said:

Not sure how relevant/helpful this is (I'm still extremely bad myself!), but I watched this video on speedrunning and skill the other day that might be interesting.

Since watching, I've been trying to stop thinking about what exactly I need to do to dodge every single revenant fireball or fight every archvile, and instead think of my actions in larger chunks and let muscle memory guide me through the nitty gritty. Three revenants, do the revenant thing, now theres an archvile too, do the revenant and archvile thing, and so on. Rather than "Oh, a revenant, move in a circle to avoid the homing fireball, now there's another, keep moving in a circle and look for cover, no theres an archvile, make sure I keep the archvile out of sight and keep doing the little circles because I'm still fighting those and keep the archvile out of sight" ad infinitum.

 

Also, if there's a group of Revenants protecting an Archvile, try to isolate the Archvile from them and take out the Archvile itself first.

[Chip]

Something I learned recently is forget about the Non-hitscan enemies. Mancubi can take a bit of time to take down with a shotgun, but forgetting about them and going to the next room can save some health. most maps, you don't revisit the same location, so getting out of that pit of Revenants may be better than taking each and every one of them out. Of course, some maps, you have to take out every Demon to progress, but those are few, and far between. There is also the parts when there are Imps and Zombiemen at the top of buildings/structures in areas where you have to hit a few switches to progress, and before you take care of anything else, you'll want to take care of those guys (unless there is also an Archie, take care of him first). here, you'll have less difficulty when taking care of those switches.

Another good thing to do is use the Plasma Rifle and BFG when there is too many enemies for you not to get hit. at most, the BFG can hold 15 shots, and many maps have enough ammo around to refill that. Don't save your BFG shots for the final encounter, save them for when you're in trouble. On top of this, don't stick to only one weapon when you're playing. You'll run out of ammo faster than you expect, and when you do, you'll be surfing around for more ammo, and get killed by a demon on your way towards your goal. Use the weapon for a few shots, then when you've killed like 5 demons, switch to another weapon. Although, it is fine to run out of ammo. Most maps have refills for you to use, so don't be scared to use up those last 100 bullets to kill that Baron, you'll find more later. Finally, when You get to the final level, go crazy with your weapons. Use every last shell, bullet, cell, and rocket, because there isn't going to be a next level for you to conquer. 

these are some of the ways to get better at DOOMing, I believe. Also, don't do Keyboard only, use a mouse or a controller. the game wasn't really made to be played with WASD or arrows, it was made for quick movement, which is easier with a controller or mouse. 

[CorianderCastor]

It's great brain exercise to practice with an unfamiliar control scheme btw.

 

Anyway, quicksave is your friend, I use the last slot and name it "quickly!". Especially blind (until you learn blind play strategies.) Ultimately there is only one way to get good though, mindful practice. I got better at games by playing Keen Galaxy vortistyle (no in-level saves) for example.

[DavitW]

Just learn the levels, The secrets can be very useful and things go a lot smoother when you know where all the traps are.

[amackert]

How to get better? Uh.. start playing with a mouse, for one.

 

Next, don't be afraid to save a lot. Play continually as well. People will tell you to pistol start only, but I feel that's for more experienced players. Carry your weapons and ammo over unless the game forces you to start fresh. After you beat a WAD, play it again instead of moving on to another. Familiarity goes a long, LONG way in being "good" at DOOM. I can name plenty of other things to go by to get better, but I think those cover the basics.

[BigBoy91]

• Don't play absentmindedly. Try really hard to get better. Focus. Sounds corny, but yeah.
• Learn to use your mouse. It's been available since day one. :0)
• Play maps outside of your comfort zone, but not so much that you get burnt out quickly. Valiant on UV is quite a leap!
• Follow this thread. It provides a list of WADs to help you improve your skill level. You'll see that Valiant is pretty far down on the list!
• Watch speedruns of levels you're stuck on, even if you're not into that type of gameplay. It helps tremendously.
• Play often!
• Don't save scum. Try to limit them to when you get keys or right before battle you're having a problem with.

[magicsofa]

8 hours ago, Lucky_Edie said:

If torches blocking projectiles is all you've got, use it.

 

Heresy. Decorations aren't supposed to block projectiles. This is a source port "feature" that you should never exploit, unless you want a big surprise when you go play something on a vanilla-mechanics port. Your rockets aren't supposed to blow up on torches either so it kinda changes a lot in some situations.

[IncognitoMode]

don't waste medkits by picking them up at high health (like me)