Things about Doom you just found out

[vdgg]

A dead player seems to activate the WR teleport (monsters only) linedef - there is a shhhh sound of teleportation, but then doesn't teleport (?)

Example

[Vermil]

That an unactivated bad guy in Heretic won't activate a teleporter trigger if it crosses it.

Of course, in the original game, it's near impossible to make an unactivated bad guy cross a teleporter as none of the original games scrollers or wind sector types affect bad guys.

However, the wind and scrolling sector types various ports have added can move bad guys.

[MSPaintR0cks]

The Automap of E1M1 looks like some kind of futuristic gun with wires and tubes all over the place.

[RjY]

vdgg said:

A dead player seems to activate the WR teleport (monsters only) linedef - there is a shhhh sound of teleportation, but then doesn't teleport (?)

Example

Oh man that's really screwy. Get this: the thing that is teleporting is one of the mancubus shots.

But, how the heck does a projectile get teleported when projectiles are explicitly tested for and prevented from teleporting? Because the missile *explodes* exactly as it crosses the linedef¹ and P_ExplodeMissile removes the MF_MISSILE flag from the object. So, it is no longer ignored by EV_Teleport.

Hahaha I love this thread.

—
¹ a move from (-91.023,-176.411) to (-89.802,-166.486) is disallowed by P_TryMove, although there seems to be more to it than that...

[Gez]

RjY said:

Oh man that's really screwy. Get this: the thing that is teleporting is one of the mancubus shots.

But, how the heck does a projectile get teleported when projectiles are explicitly tested for and prevented from teleporting? Because the missile *explodes* exactly as it crosses the linedef¹ and P_ExplodeMissile removes the MF_MISSILE flag from the object. So, it is no longer ignored by EV_Teleport.

Also, this couldn't happen with a baron shot or imp fireball; only with the Doom II projectiles, because the original projectiles are specifically barred from even activating the linedef before the linedef type is considered.

[abyrvalg]

So, it leaves us with rev&manc balls only? or perhaps arach's plasma too? Could it be used to activate any other linedefs? And what happens on the other side when the projectile gets teleported? I would test it, but it's too late and i'm going to bed now :) This is very exciting.

[BaronOfStuff]

jongo said:

And what happens on the other side when the projectile gets teleported?

I expect that it simply goes through it's usual explosion frames and disappears.


Speaking of projectiles, the sprites for Revenant missiles are not completely original artwork, just very cleverly edited Baron fireball sprites -- with the sole exception of the second exploding frame [FBXPB0], which is a scaled-down copy of the second exploding frame of a Caco Fireball [BAL2D0], which in turn is a scaled-down second exploding frame of a Rocket [MISLC0] (which was later recycled as the exploding frames for a Mancubus Fireball).

Oh, and while I'm here, this frame [MISLC0] is itself a scaled-down section of a Cyderdemon death frame [CYBRM0], which was then also scaled down and cropped for use as the final frame of an exploding Barrel [BEXPE0]! If you look closely, you can just about see the top of the 'hooves' at the base of the Barrel.

Ugly image displaying all this shit:


...and breathe.

[abyrvalg]

I knew about cyberdemon/barrel, but this is just wow. Looks like id liked recycling the same stuff instead of creating it from scratch, and this thread never ceases to show how vast their editing was.

Also, regarding the teleporting fireballs - yeah, they just go through explosion frames, but the thing i'm most interested is whether these exploded&teleported fireballs are capable of activating anything / theoretically doing anything at all after their teleportation / or something instead of w1 teleports.
Also, would it work with player's weapons? Perhaps with some dehacked/zdoom stuff that makes you shoot manc/rev fireballs?

[Avoozl]

Well it would probably cost more developing a game with every graphic resource of a similar thing being made completely from scratch.

[_bruce_]

Excellent observation BaronOfStuff.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

The revenant fireball kinda looks like an eyeball.

[40oz]

I'm pretty sure the mancubus fireball is also a Lost Soul edit too.

[BaronOfStuff]

40oz said:

I'm pretty sure the mancubus fireball is also a Lost Soul edit too.

For the flame 'trail', yes. The rest (that is, the front of each fireball) all seems to be created from that damn Revenant missile again, although given the sprite names for that projectile ([FATB] & [FBXP]), it's safe to assume that they were originally going to be used as Mancubus (Fatso) missiles. The only exception to having a Lost Soul sprite as a base is the 'back' of the fireball, which appears to be nothing more than [FBXPA0] with the detail taken out (or if you prefer, a blood-red Baron fireball):




This next one isn't something I've just found out, but is something that's bugged me for as long as I can remember. The Hellknight's hooves magically turn grey - the colour of a Baron's hooves - during the second frame of attack [BOS2F*], when in every other frame they're brown:




Oh, and there's those two damn pixels of red blood on both of these initial death frames, [BOSSI0] & [BOS2I0], just above their right shoulders:

[Captain Toenail]

Wow, I knew all the fireball stuff already but not the Hellknight's magic hooves. Interesting to note that the Baron may have initially had red blood too.

Also in the early Doom alpha the baron has lighter grey/silver horns and hooves similiar to the pinky/imp's.

Another thing I have noticed is that the small red fire stick has a group of pixels offset one pixel to the side. a small editing mistake that can be seen when compared with the green and blue variants or noticed ingame if you look carefully.

I think when you start noticing these things it is a sign you are playing too much Doom. :P

[Cupboard]

Fantastic analysis BaronofStuff.

[Lila Feuer]

Captain Toenail said:

I think when you start noticing these things it is a sign you are playing too much Doom. :P

I guess I'm safe then. Amazing observations BaronOfStuff.

So barrels contain mini Cyberdemons? Destroying all barrels from now on for great justice.

[LigH]

But keep one last barrel near the start for later ... oh, sorry, that was something different. ;-)

[Memfis]

"Scroll Texture Left" only scrolls the front side of the line.

[BaronOfStuff]

Memfis said:

"Scroll Texture Left" only scrolls the front side of the line.

Interesting... I don't think I'd have ever noticed this myself, the only time I ever use any scrolling effects are on one-sided lines.

[Ashley_Pomeroy]

It's mentioned on the Wiki, but it took me ages to notice that the beginnings of E3M1 and E3M9 aren't quite the same:


E3M1 has a much lower door, and part of the corridor beyond looks to have been crudely lowered to match the door's height. I wonder which one came first? E3M9 looks nicer and the corridor beyond works better, but there's a bug - you can hit the closing switch from the outside and run inside through the closing door, which means you can't go back outside again 'cause there's no way to open the door from the inside. Like in that old 2000AD short story where the last man on a space freighter closes the door of his hypersleep capsule, and then realises that the hibernation switch is on the outside.

Whatever, it's potentially disastrous on E3M9 because you need to go back outside to finish the level. E3M1 fixes this, but it's a bit pointless because there's no reason to go out there. My guess is that they designed E3M1 first, copied it in order to make E3M9, finished E3M9 and put it aside, and then realised that E3M1 had that door bug and fixed it, but forgot about E3M9.

This is why software development is so big on revision control.

[VGamingJunkie]

I recently learned that the instant kill voodoo trick works on the 32x version of Doom. Probably shouldn't be a big shocker since it was a Vanilla Doom thing but I've never heard of it being done before, particularly since the player one sprite doesn't seem to really be there.

[Scypek2]

If about 30-40 voodoo dolls will be crushed in vanilla (it was probably 36 in my case), dead player will be able to walk for a while.

[LigH]

Reminds me on a Wikia article which describes a (cheating?) solution for a speedrun to use the sliding corpse after a rocket suicide to pass an exit line.

[rkdoomguy]

I thought that monsters of the same type cannot infight. Yet, just the other day, I saw two Nightmare Spectres (Playstation Doom) infighting in Unholy Cathedral.

[LigH]

Monster Infighting can be tweaked with DeHackEd on PC DOOM. But I don't know details if it just overrides predefined exclusions, means, if the "same-race friendlyness" had to be made on purpose, by filtering infight relations, and DeHackEd removed the filter.

Misc 0
Monsters Infight = 221

Then it might be possible that PS DOOM misses a filter bit there?

[myk]

tempun said:
AV guys really should have released Dehacked 3.2 with this capability, given that Boom supports changing par times.

For AV, Mutator made a little Quick Basic application to edit the Doom2 par times.

I don't use Kim's little program, which I got from Anders Johnsen back then, but I've checked its source to locate the location of the par times so I could find them on my hex editor. The par time for level 1 is in address 99C34 (with the value "1E" in hexadecimal, as expected) and the rest follow. The DOOM par times are right before the DOOM II times, although that's for DOOM v1.9 instead of the Ultimate DOOM.

I edited my copy of av.deh to expand all contractions and to add par times (in BEX format).

Heh, I do the opposite for a variety of vanilla or limit removing PWADs that have par times in BEX, such as d2reload and dtwid, editing Doom with a hex editor and making a patch that's applied on the fly to Doom or Doom+ along with any applicable DeHackEd patch, every time I play.

One interesting tidbit that I gleaned from Kim's little program is that you can make any par time say "sucks" if it's set to one hour or more, like the playing time. This is probably obvious from the Doom source (haven't checked).

rkdoomguy said:
I thought that monsters of the same type cannot infight. Yet, just the other day, I saw two Nightmare Spectres (Playstation Doom) infighting in Unholy Cathedral.

In earlier versions of Doom, the demon used an attack similar to the fist, or a very short range pistol shot, and these monsters could miss their attack and hurt others or destroy barrels when facing partial invisibility. Because of this issue, it was later changed to a genuine close range attack that can only affect the target. Perhaps that port relies on older sources that still had that code.

[andrewj]

Hehe, noticed this in the code:

#define ZONEID  0x1d4a11

I worked on a DOOM source port for a long time and probably looked at that numerous times, but it never really registered. The same define is used in QUAKE too.

[Memfis]

Weird stray pixels in one of revenant's punch sprites (SKELI7). See white dots on the left?

[Marnetmar]

You can see part of Kevin Cloud's shirt sleeve during the punching animation, the punch animation is also the only one where there's no gloves on your hands.
There is a very small amount of blood on the chainsaw.
The mancubus fireballs, icon of sin cubes and flaming barrels appear in DOOM.WAD but aren't used. There are also text graphics for "you", "sucks", "killers" and "victims".
Graphics for the 3 Doom episodes appear in DOOM2.WAD

[Vermil]

Marnetmar said:

There are also text graphics for "you", "sucks", "killers" and "victims".

When your time for a map exceeds an hour; the time would be replaced with the 'sucks' graphic. Though ZDoom at least, disables this.

There are also several text graphics in the Iwad meant for MP intermission.