Would it be legal to sell a DOOM mappack?

[Zopawa]

For example, you make a one-map WAD, could you sell it? Legally?

[Murdoch]

No. Even if you could, the odds of making a profit would be essentially nil given the three decades of quality work available for free.

[D4NUK1]

 

[DNSKILL5]

Why would anyone buy that when there’s plenty of one level WADs for free?

[Biz!]

Legally, I'm pretty sure, but morally, no.

It's an original asset, not derivative of anyone's work.

However, money for one map? What are you, D!Zone? The map better be one hell of an experience, like myhouse.

Don't forget you'll still have to pay for an official iwads, to run it.

The reason why standalone games like REKKR or Hedon are allowed to sell is because they don't use copyrighted assets.

[ＤΞＬＴΛ]

I plan on making games using gzdoom for free with the only form of payment either coming from patreon or buy me a coffee or both.

 

IMO, OP should REALLY think about what he's getting into with the potentially muddy as fuck waters of commercially sold games, with nasty-ass corporations blasting him with lawsuits and copyright infringements and what not.

 

Simply put OP: don't even bother nor think about it, just don't... Just get a patreon, ko-fi, or BMAC like a decent human being.

[Test Tickle]

People do that on steam anyways lol

[Graf Zahl]

I don't think Doom's original license allows selling add-ons.

Of course with the engine itself being free you CAN sell your own game, provided it does not depend on Doom(2).wad and provides its own assets. And of course in this case you can sell add ons to your own game.

[Murdoch]

16 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

I don't think Doom's original license allows selling add-ons.

 

It definitely didn't. Those that did either got permission or were like "license agreement lol wat".

 

1 hour ago, Test Tickle said:

People do that on steam anyways lol

 

I sincerely doubt this. You are likely confusing the idea of maps or map packs, versus entire new games which use none of Doom's resources and a suitably licenced port like GZDoom which can distributed basically how people wish.

[Ludi]

Don't. 

[yum13241]

49 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

I don't think Doom's original license allows selling add-ons.

Of course with the engine itself being free you CAN sell your own game, provided it does not depend on Doom(2).wad and provides its own assets. And of course in this case you can sell add ons to your own game.

If you really insist, you can bundle Freedoom with your one map wad. The amount of copies of the doom source port you bundle would be a lot though. But why would anyone buy your one map WAD when there are so many others for free!

[sandwedge]

I've seen some people sell stuff on places like itch.io, usually with "name your own price", and I figured that was more accepted, since it's more of a donation.

[Matthias]

Only if you have your own assets. But using Gzdoom engine to make games is possible.

 

For example Hedon or REKKR are available on Steam I think.

[HorseJockey]

1 hour ago, Graf Zahl said:

Of course with the engine itself being free you CAN sell your own game

This. If you want to make something and get paid for it, make your own game with GZDoom or engine of choice. Selling a map pack for Doom is like putting a pay wall in front of a mod. What's the point? And like everyone else is saying why would someone pay you money for something that they can get for free? There are thousands of maps available. 

[xScavengerWolfx]

Why would you sell your WADs for money?

[yakfak]

it's perfectly legal and i would go as far as to say it's the hot new market people should be diversifying towards

[mrthejoshmon]

You can do it.

I won't be mad at you, just disappointed.

[MFG38]

5 hours ago, Test Tickle said:

People do that on steam anyways lol

 

Only those are effectively total conversions, not map(set)s that still use the stock Doom assets.

[Koko Ricky]

You can literally pay anyone for anything if you do it right. If you sold me a map pack and I cashapped you $10, I don't have to say what it's for and there's no way to legally prove why I gave you those 10 dollars. I could easily say that it's a generous gift from me. I could claim you helped with some unrelated manner. Now, is it a good idea? Not in this age, no, because there's no established market in which people buy and sell maps.

[Klaesick]

Legally speaking, I'll leave that conversation up to others who know better then I in that department.
Practically speaking, people have already said it but I think it can be restated. It's going up against THOUSANDS of maps that could be similar or higher quality that are for free.

Morally speaking however, I would say a definite NO.

My thoughts on games and other entertainment media being monetized are mixed at best, but any modification to those works that doesn't aim to completly transform it into a new thing entirely, should be strictly free in my eyes. A re-edit of a movie or a mod for game (sense that's the topic) isn't creating a new work for example.

If you're aiming to make a One Map TC akin to Suppilce, Ashes, or even something like Heretic, with completly original assets, new soundtrack, new gameplay, etc. Then yes, you could possibly sell it legally for a few bucks. Morally I'm fine with it, because again, it's more or less using the engine to create a New Game rather then just a Mod for an old one.

I don't know your intentions, but I don't read them as pure form the looks of it. If you are wishing to make a quick buck off of a low-effort map, look elsewhere. I don't accept those kinds of people in the modding scene.

16 hours ago, yakfak said:

it's perfectly legal and i would go as far as to say it's the hot new market people should be diversifying towards

That's a very dangerous precedent to want to set. Gearing the community towards a pay-to-play low effort stuff rather then the joy of creation goes against literally everything modding is in my opinion.

[AndrewB]

Interesting that pretty much every response in the thread answered a different question than the one that was asked.

[Eurisko]

Micro transaction Doom? No thanks. Leave that for your mobile phone. 

[fai1025]

unless you're map is so good and impressive that Id wanna sell your mod like what happens to TNT, otherwise no. 

[Rudolph]

On 4/23/2023 at 5:28 AM, xScavengerWolfx said:

Why would you sell your WADs for money?

Well, we all have bills to pay and being able to live off one's art is very much every artist's dream.

 

But yeah, I do not think it is a good idea, since it would (re)set a dangerous precedent when it comes to custom content.

[Doominator2]

If your selling Doom Wads to pay your bills, your bills better be in the single digit dollar range.

[dasho]

1 hour ago, Rudolph said:

Well, we all have bills to pay and being able to live off one's art is very much every artist's dream.

 

But yeah, I do not think it is a good idea, since it would (re)set a dangerous precedent when it comes to custom content.

 

So it is every artist's dream, but dangerous to pursue it? Should Patreon be scuttled next? This makes no sense. If someone can make content that is good enough that people would pay for it over a literal lifetime's worth of free content that's available, what then? I mention Patreon in particular because that seems like another solution to the "you can't legally sell an addon that requires a Doom IWAD" problem.

[Master O]

Would that Supplice?

[continuum.mid]

None of us are lawyers AFAIK, and certainly none are giving qualified legal advice. Ask a lawyer if you want actual qualified advice.

 

That said: as far as I know, it's entirely legal to sell a WAD, and plenty of people have, so long as you don't include any assets you don't have permission to sell, including id's.

 

If you're going to bundle an IWAD or source port to make a full game, make sure to respect their licenses. Don't use the id IWADs or any ports that are under the Doom Source License. Freedoom simply requires that you include its license file and not imply endorsement by the project or its contributors, and GPL source ports require that you license any changes you make under the GPL and ensure your users can modify and copy it. But both Freedoom and GPL source ports specifically allow people who follow the license to sell them.

[RataUnderground]

I wouldn't mind supporting a mapper that put its maps behind a paywall in patreon or something. (if I find them interesting enough), but its not a popular opinion.

[Kyle07]

Already Final DOOM was criticized for that in 1996.

SIGIL was an exception as its free and you pay only the goodies.

 

Never got in touch with the sold addons for doom or duke3d. Don't see there the points, especially for the delivered quality.