Doom 1 or 2?

[Zaxxon]

It seems i'm the only one here who likes the super shotgun and the regular shotgun equally. The SSG fires two shells per shot, but the regular shotgun fires almost twice as fast. The SSG is an instrument of destruction at close and mid range, while the regular shotgun's accuracy makes it efficient at longer distances and it's satisfying to snipe down zombies and imps with it. I too wish the SSG was in both games, but it would have been way overpowered against Doom 1's enemy roster.

 

[ENEMY!!!]

I prefer Doom 1's original campaign, partly due to nostalgia but also partly due to gameplay, Doom 1 focuses more on the atmosphere IMHO and I find it easier to get immersed in it.  I quite often revisit the original Doom's IWAD maps but more rarely revisit those of Doom 2.  However, I think Doom 2 is the better platform for modding for most purposes because of the extra monsters, larger number of textures and the Super Shotgun.

[Biodegradable]

2 hours ago, Doom64Myfav said:

I expressed my opinion on doom2 in length and they are attacking me personally for it I'm not attacking anyone this will be my last response due to the daily limit, watch the insults role in.

 

With all due respect: If you insist on bellowing your opinion in long-winded diatribes devoid of sentence breaks with the writing tone of a bullhorn and then insist that you're being "attacked" for said opinion when asked to tone it down a notch; Are the responses you've received so far really that strange? Honestly, from what I've seen so far, you've gotten off pretty lightly. People have been dunked on a lot harder for less.

 

You're more than welcome to your opinion, but if you wish for any of us to take you seriously and have a polite conversation about your points, try and deliver them with something more coherent than what reads like the manic gamer equivalent of a Francis E. Dec letter.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Biodegradable

[mrthejoshmon]

I love ironic shitposting and all that fun stuff but honestly the lines are blurred too much to the point where hitscanners can't hit them.

[BigBoy91]

The fuck is this?

[Maes]

17 hours ago, Doomkid said:

I’ve considered pulling the power move: merge ALL “Doom 1 vs Doom 2” threads dating back for 22 years into one giga-thread.

 

I mean, it would be kinda entertaining to see 2+ decades of bickering on this topic in one unified place..

 

 

OTOH, "just" 56 pages for 21 years worth of endless debating doesn't seem much...

[Zaxxon]

Wait a second... am i seeing this right?

 

3 hours ago, Doom64Myfav said:

Doom2 had nothing on that level of challenge. If you play all 3 games on the lowest difficulty, like I did, doom64 is easily the most challenging.

 

I'm not going to judge you for playing video games on easy (despite your self-proclamation of being "the legit gamer here"), but how can you play on the lowest difficulty setting and then criticize Doom 2 for a lack of challenge? And you still find Doom 64 to be challenging on its easiest difficulty? And you're playing FPS games since when you say? 

 

[_bruce_]

11 hours ago, Kute said:

How can the guy say Doom 2 praise is based more on nostalgia when most of the discussion here is focused on Doom 2 wads, lol. 

 

How come whenever I see screenshots here, I see revenants and SSGs if nobody actually plays Doom 2 it's just nostalgia remembrance 

 

I think the literal opposite is more true - Doom 1 is praised on nostalgia, then everyone goes back to their Doom 2 wads.

 

 

It seems that the original Doom is more defined/remembered by its first episode and is therefor judged way less harshly than the successor which got played, dissected/modded and criticized to near death(especially the "Sandy Sandbox" issue).

 

Some weeks ago I sat down(on a fast 486 setup) to give the old "registered" Doom a run for its money and the impression (Episode 1 excluding) is way less satisfying than that of DoomII. Besides the obvious differences to part 2 the maps often are not that interesting/exciting to play... especially once you've come into contact with the new & bold standards set by DoomII.

 

There are also some heavy stinkers like E2M9, E3M1, E3M8, E3M9 in there that may be neat but for later maps these provide hardly any bite or serious value... could one imagine oneself with somebody(affine to Doom) on a LAN being pumped to play through E3M1...? E3M9 has failed its kinda cool idea with meager execution. Similar to E3M8 which makes even the final monster look really stupid... lonely trotting along in an depressingly empty marble stadium.(imagine all your fickle minions leaving for the Bahamas instead of putting up a fight)

 

 

[maxmanium]

15 hours ago, Doomkid said:

And they said I was a madman...

 

WELL I SHOWED THEM... MUAJAJAJA

 

I was wondering how the hell a thread from 2000 from an unregistered user was considered popular. Brilliant

[Redneckerz]

Its difficult:

• Doom provided the basis for which all WADS are derived from.
• Doom 2 refined that basis (Super shotgun, etc).

If i had to choose, then Doom 2. Even though Doom 1 is the game that defines several gameplay mechanics, Doom 2 has had a far longer lasting impact thanks to the majority of WAD's requiring either doom2.wad or doom2.exe. Speedrunners and demo recorders, as can be observed on DSDA, aim for Doom 2 1.9.

 

So Doom 2 it is then for me.

 

Quote

A wall of text

You could have just said that you disagreed. I don't mind if you like Doom 1 more than 2 because there is a lot to Doom 1 that makes sense to put it above Doom 2. Its not a story of which is better, more of that those are comparable, and subjective nuances make you pick Doom 1 or Doom 2.

 

Either choice is perfectly fine.

 

Quote

All this saying doom64 is the real doom3 really is kind of wrong.

Correct. Doom Legacy is the actual Doom3. *

 

Spoiler

The executable of legacy was called doom3.exe.

Quote

And to all the people talking about my text walls, sorry you don't have to read it. I post text walls cause I actually care about the games and these text walls are a fraction of the time I put into actually beating doom1/2/64 so like I said, you don't like the post don't read it.

Surely undermines the effort you obviously take into making such lengthy posts to begin with, don't you think? You put your word out because you feel it has merit and to recieve a response.

 

Quote

Because its a sorry uninspired generic villain.

I'd disagree. I feel the revenant is a product of the 90's where outrageous outfits, shows were a recurring theme. Ever heard of Biker Mice From Mars? That makes absolutely no sense either.

 

But it was effin' cool. In that philosophy the revenant exists. It appealed to players of the 90's because it was effin' cool.

 

For the rest of your rant, if you feel you don't belong here because others take light of what you post, there is nothing stopping you from going somewhere else. Personally, i'd invite you to stay on for a little bit longer and get to know the people in this community. You aren't going to get that experience if you write linedefs upon linedefs saying you aren't here to make friends or craft experiences but you just want to be critical of things.

 

Which, i suppose, is one way to look at it. I believe that alienates you from 99% of the user experience which makes DoomWorld so worthwhile. But hey, what i believe is a shitty option to go for is still an option and a choice and you are 100% in your right to make that choice.

 

1 hour ago, mrthejoshmon said:

I love ironic shitposting and all that fun stuff but honestly the lines are blurred too much to the point where hitscanners can't hit them.

Text walls should be an enemy in POOGERS.wad.

[Gibbon]

Wow, from 2000!  Now we are part of history!

 

Well from the Gibbon Master Archives: Doom 1.

 

Argument settled :)

[ENEMY!!!]

I am probably in a minority here, but in the Ultimate Doom I find E2 at least as enjoyable as E1.  The only E2 map that I'm not fussed on is E2M3, and even then, it's probably mainly due to the ill-fitting intermission music.  E2M9 may not hold up so well these days, but at the time it was a ground-breaking gimmick which showed the potential of monster infighting.  E3 and the first half of E4 are more of a mixed bag for me, but E4 gets more consistently good towards the end.

 

I agree though about Ultimate Doom being very easy by most standards.  I remember that when I first got Ultimate Doom's E4 in (I think) 1997, having become a relatively experienced Doomer by then, I found much of it surprisingly easy (even E4M2, which is one of the harder maps).  I can't remember if I played through it on UV or HMP first time round, but it was one of those two.  That said, I remember remarking, "I'm finding this really easy", to a friend who was watching me play through E4M6, only to be shot down by a Cyberdemon about ten seconds later.  Doom 2 is more representative of the difficulty level that most people associate with Doom.  Indeed, compared with most modern PWADs you could even make a case for Plutonia being closer to the most common difficulty level than Doom 2.

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by ENEMY!!!

[BGreener]

@ENEMY!!! Episode 2 introduces the plasma gun, berserk pack, the deliciously colored caco, the cool “tech hell base” style - it’s great, and I like it as much if not more than episode 1. Inferno is cool, too.

 

I may be in the minority because I don’t enjoy episode 4 as much as the other three..! The first few maps are fun but I find it weird how much they like the marble+lava style. They’re still fun maps but I like the weird variety that Inferno had.
 

[Mayomancer]

Even the bad Doom 1 maps have some charm to them since they were the very first, and you can see different ideas being tried to different degrees of sucess. Plus all the episodes have very nice aesthetics going for them. Still, I don't like to consider the games in a vacuum and the new stuff in Doom 2 are just huge assets for custom content, even if the IWAD maps themselves aren't as nice a lot of the time.

[Tarnsman]

I think it's neat to see how the discourse has sort of evolved and how that is reflected in modern PWAD level design.

 

Up to the mid-2010s it felt like Doom 1 was generally preferred over Doom 2 in all aspects besides beastiary and the added SSG. Which was reflected in the community when making more content that stuck a lot closer to D1's formula and design principles. Sort of culminating in the discrepancy in levels of excitement and participation in DTWID vs D2TWID.

 

But now there seems to be a much bigger love for D2's design and not just expanded gameplay. With the rise of "TWIDcore" where most of these projects now feel much closer to D2's design philosophy.

[Mr Masker]

6 hours ago, Doom64Myfav said:

*The Communist Manifesto: DOOM 2 Edition* aka TEXT

Do you really expect people to read all of this? Especially when it starts with you complaining about people not agreeing with you?

[Pseudonaut]

6 hours ago, Zaxxon said:

How can you say that when you have the Rocket Launcher and the Plasma Gun avaible? Doom 1 will rarely force you to fight Barons of Hell with just the shotgun. And the rare times it does, it's usually only one of them, even on UV.

 

I usually pistol start everything so those aren't always available, often limited in their ammo. Not just barons either; cacos and even pinkies are kinda boring to fight with a shotgun. I'm sure that good routing can improve the situation a lot, but my impression of Doom 1 gameplay is that it's more likely than Doom 2 to involve slowly chewing through a bunch of meat with the shotgun.

[DMPhobos]

I used to prefer doom 1, but over time shifted to liking doom 2 better, the SSG and new monsters are a game changer and despite having a few maps i really don't like, i think it makes for a better game overall

 

That said, im just fascinated how this thread has seen posts from each year nonstop since 2000, with the sole exception of 2005, 2006 and 2007, which i guess were the years when people settled their differences with doom 1 and doom 2 and lived in harmony

[ZeMystic]

8 hours ago, Doom64Myfav said:

And I can't understand how a generic skeleton is such a fan fav.

 

A real-life skeleton costs $3,000, or a felony. A Doom 2 Skeleton costs 5 doll- fuck it I already did this bit.

[BGreener]

6 hours ago, Zaxxon said:

It seems i'm the only one here who likes the super shotgun and the regular shotgun equally. The SSG fires two shells per shot, but the regular shotgun fires almost twice as fast. The SSG is an instrument of destruction at close and mid range, while the regular shotgun's accuracy makes it efficient at longer distances and it's satisfying to snipe down zombies and imps with it. I too wish the SSG was in both games, but it would have been way overpowered against Doom 1's enemy roster.

 

The “dealbreakers” for me when comparing it to the SSG are the pellet count doubled with the damage RNG. It has to compete with the super shotgun’s 10 pellets per shell while still having a decent chance at not one shotting an imp when all pellets hit. I also don’t find it too appealing to “snipe” with due to its spread, unless I’m stuffed on shells and low on bullets -or there’s a bunch of spread out shotgunners; that way I can avoid their shots while pumping in-between my own (a similar niche and situation you’ll find in Quake 2 which has its own weird shotgun/supershotgun balance).

 

The irony here is I prefer to pistol start, so despite my preferences I’m using the regular shotgun far more than I would otherwise.

[Noiser]

Doom 2.

[Gothic]

On 2/14/2022 at 4:33 AM, Doom64Myfav said:

I came here.

why

[Kute]

You know, reading through some of the big megawad release threads, I see alot of people complain about difficulty - even while seemingly playing on the lower ones.

 

This dude, Cynical, I keep seeing his posts - and it's always him complaining about stuff noone else seems to have trouble with. I can't imagine a glorious work of art like Ancient Aliens becoming available for me to download, and I play it for hours, and all I can do is complain about personal hang-ups. But he's not the only guy.

 

It's clear to me that there is a large contingent of videogame players that want to march through games unopposed and unchallenged, and that's fine. I have a strong suspicion that a lot of "personal preferences" comes down to how easy it is to waltz through the game or wad or whatever.

 

I get why Doom Eternal has this contingent of vocal mockers that disregard it on sight. If something like the Doom 2 arch-vile adds a little too much to the gameplay for these guys, I can't even imagine how hopeless they'd feel in the face of Doom Eternal Nightmare difficulty. And if Doom 2's larger, more complicated maps are too big a jump from the dark hallways, then I can see how the "platforming" of doom eternal could be viewed as particularly backbreaking and obtrusive 

 

This is just some vague observations and personal opinion, nothing more

 

Some of you guys just want to play what you know at the same difficulty forever.   

 

 

 

 

[Kute]

18 minutes ago, BGrieber said:

The “dealbreakers” for me when comparing it to the SSG are the pellet count doubled with the damage RNG. It has to compete with the super shotgun’s 10 pellets per shell while still having a decent chance at not one shotting an imp when all pellets hit. I also don’t find it too appealing to “snipe” with due to its spread, unless I’m stuffed on shells and low on bullets -or there’s a bunch of spread out shotgunners; that way I can avoid their shots while pumping in-between my own (a similar niche and situation you’ll find in Quake 2 which has its own weird shotgun/supershotgun balance).

 

The irony here is I prefer to pistol start, so despite my preferences I’m using the regular shotgun far more than I would otherwise.

 

Yea exactly, everyone uses plenty of regular shotgun, it's a pleasant weapon. Doom 2 has more heavies, and they are more threatening. It needed a stronger workhorse than the shotgun. 

 

It's not OP, because the guns are gauged relative to the other weapons and to the threats they are used on - and noone is using the SSG in a tough fight over the plasma, RL, or BFG.

 

And if it's OP compared to the demons, well, you can add more demons. I read more complaints pertaining to too much difficulty than easiness, so I think we can conclude that the SSG isn't trivializing content.

 

It's the shotgun, but cooler and with a bit more punch. 

[Murdoch]

38 minutes ago, Gothic said:

why

 

Indeed. "I came here to this place where people socialise to antagonise people and talk about how I'm not here to make friends!"

[Major Arlene]

FYI, Doom64 kid has been banned, so enough's enough on that front, back to your regularly scheduled Doom 2 is better posting! 

[Redneckerz]

2 minutes ago, Major Arlene said:

FYI, Doom64 kid has been banned, so enough's enough on that front, back to your regularly scheduled Doom 2 is better posting! 

I thought @Doomkid was better anyway than Doom64kid. That's the OG.

[QuotePilgrim]

DOOM is a better game. Way better level design, better progression, better music, and no enemies that make the game actively less enjoyable.

 

DOOM II is better for making levels and modding because it's a strict superset of DOOM regarding gameplay mechanics.

[BGreener]

32 minutes ago, Kute said:

Some of you guys just want to play what you know at the same difficulty forever.   

That’s fine if its their prerogative. Even Eternal throws players plenty of difficulty options under Nightmare and Ultra NM, as well as plenty of other in-game aids.

[Frankouu]

Just gonna reiterate the "Doom 1 feels a lot tighter level design wise but definitely has its faults." E1M9 and E3M1 come to mind. Obviously doom 2 expands on that good formula with boneboy & friends to round out the roster, plus shotgun 2 : the electric boogaloo to finish off the arsenal. Gameplay/level focused though the middle third sags imho >nirvana >downtown ect. Honestly could just be my preference for a good techbase level with puzzles & all or romero's designs, either way doom 2 better but I prefer doom 1's level design ¯\_(ツ)_/¯